What is "Middle Class"?

[Frelga]

Exactly, Ax. We have sacrificed the necessities in exchange for low-quality extras.
But how else do you keep a market-driven economy going?

[Túrin Turambar]

But again, I don't see this as a symptom of a declining middle class. People can still work the same white-collar jobs and own the same small businesses that they used to. The changes have happened below them, where people who used to have long-term, decently-paying blue-collar jobs now need to make a living in a casualised service sector selling cheap overseas-made junk to each other.

[Primula Baggins]

But again, I don't see this as a symptom of a declining middle class. People can still work the same white-collar jobs and own the same small businesses that they used to. The changes have happened below them, where people who used to have long-term, decently-paying blue-collar jobs now need to make a living in a casualised service sector selling cheap overseas-made junk to each other.

I don't deny that the lower middle class is in a tougher spot. But as for the middle class, "people can still work the same white-collar jobs and own the same small businesses that they used to" doesn't tell the whole story. That white-collar job is precarious; breaking away to start a business is impossible because health insurance is unobtainable for most individuals; those small businesses are struggling because people aren't buying things; retirement is a receding dream with retirement savings decimated or (in the case of one couple I know) stolen entirely; helping kids through college can break a family's back financially, yet kids must go to college. And the family home, the most valuable asset for most middle-class families, may well be worth less than the family owes on it.

Looked at from the outside, the same people are working the same jobs. Looked at from inside, for many families it's literally a hopeless situation: they can keep their heads above water, but they know they will never do better and will most likely do worse as the years go by.

[Holbytla]

Robert Reich published a book a month or two ago calles Aftershock. It details among other things the economic mess of a couple of years ago. You can read a few pager on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Aftershock-Next-E ... 0307592812
I think he sheds some light on the fate of the middle class, where the percentage of wealth has been going and the affect it has had on the economy.

[vison]

That was a terrific book.

While I agree with almost everything everyone has said, I guess my view is that we have just lived too high on the hog. Everyone went a little nuts there.

Do "kids have to go to college"? Why?

In this day and age, they do, I guess, because the good union jobs at the mill or the auto plant are GONE. It's either some kind of "white collar work" or working at Walmart.

[Primula Baggins]

That's what I meant, vison: the "American dream" of a solid blue-collar job that can support a family is over. I certainly don't think everyone wants to (or should) go to college; there just isn't much choice any more.

[Túrin Turambar]

But again, I don't see this as a symptom of a declining middle class. People can still work the same white-collar jobs and own the same small businesses that they used to. The changes have happened below them, where people who used to have long-term, decently-paying blue-collar jobs now need to make a living in a casualised service sector selling cheap overseas-made junk to each other.

I don't deny that the lower middle class is in a tougher spot. But as for the middle class, "people can still work the same white-collar jobs and own the same small businesses that they used to" doesn't tell the whole story. That white-collar job is precarious; breaking away to start a business is impossible because health insurance is unobtainable for most individuals; those small businesses are struggling because people aren't buying things; retirement is a receding dream with retirement savings decimated or (in the case of one couple I know) stolen entirely; helping kids through college can break a family's back financially, yet kids must go to college. And the family home, the most valuable asset for most middle-class families, may well be worth less than the family owes on it.

Looked at from the outside, the same people are working the same jobs. Looked at from inside, for many families it's literally a hopeless situation: they can keep their heads above water, but they know they will never do better and will most likely do worse as the years go by.

Nonetheless, better to be a doctor or lawyer or department store manager struggling to pay the mortgage and send the kids to college than a uneducated worker from a long line of auto plant workers with no auto plant to work in.

[Holbytla]

At one time (and still somewhat) people that worked in auto plants, warehouses, knitting mills etc. were middle class. That is the portion of the middle class that is being eradicated. Doctors, lawyers teachers and other white collar professionals are still firmly fixed in place, but the average Joe is confronted with stalled or decreases in wages and continually rising costs.

[Primula Baggins]

Again, I am not trying to say it would be better to be the auto plant worker without an auto plant. I'm trying to say that things are not easy for anyone in the middle class or below these days, and that this general lack of financial or employment security among a majority of the population is seriously hurting the economy.

[vison]

You bet it is.

[Túrin Turambar]

At one time (and still somewhat) people that worked in auto plants, warehouses, knitting mills etc. were middle class. That is the portion of the middle class that is being eradicated. Doctors, lawyers teachers and other white collar professionals are still firmly fixed in place, but the average Joe is confronted with stalled or decreases in wages and continually rising costs.

I disagree. Unskilled or semi-skilled workers have never been considered middle class. According to traditional definitions (like, say, Weber) people were middle class if a) they owned a small amount of capital, like a farmer who works on their own farm or a shopkeeper who owns their own shop (Marx's petty bourgeois) b) were members of a profession, like a doctor or lawyer or c) had progressed sufficiently through the ranks of an organisation to have a better-paying and more managerial job with people working under them. The foreman at a factory would be highly unlikely to be middle class, let alone the workers themselves. Only the owner and educated white-collar staff would be.

It's worth remembering that the middle classes are and always have been a smaller group than the classes below them and skewed more towards the top of the income scale than the bottom. An average income earner would be more likely to be lower middle-class or working class than true middle class.

[Primula Baggins]

That doesn't apply to the post-WWII United States, though, Lord_M, no matter what Weber would say. Being "middle-class" isn't a social distinction, it's a financial one. If you own a house and are financially secure, you're middle-class no matter what your job is. It used to be that people in good union jobs earned substantially more than people with jobs you might call automatically "middle-class" such as teachers, clergymen, or certainly farmers. Now most such jobs are gone, and the farmers and teachers aren't doing much better.

[yovargas]

Isn't the rise of the middle class in places like China attributed in part to a lot of our manufacturing type jobs going overseas?

[Griffon64]

Probably, but is that rising middle class the workers themselves, or the layer on top of them?

[Túrin Turambar]

That doesn't apply to the post-WWII United States, though, Lord_M, no matter what Weber would say. Being "middle-class" isn't a social distinction, it's a financial one. If you own a house and are financially secure, you're middle-class no matter what your job is. It used to be that people in good union jobs earned substantially more than people with jobs you might call automatically "middle-class" such as teachers, clergymen, or certainly farmers. Now most such jobs are gone, and the farmers and teachers aren't doing much better.

Someone doing a unionised, unskilled or semi-skilled blue-collar job is working-class by definition. If the worker at the auto factory isn't working-class, then who is?

I have read a lot of material in economic and sociological articles and texts on class distinctions, and I have never once read in any source, American or otherwise, that home ownership was an indicator of being middle-class. It used to be very common even among lower-income people in the days of cheaper housing.

[Primula Baggins]

This is probably a semantic disagreement. Americans don't tend to talk about any group as the "working class." I would guess because it sounds archaic and elitist, implying that the classes above "the working class" don't work but live on capital (as used to be the case to some extent in European countries).

[yovargas]

Hmmm, yeah...maybe there's different "official" definitions but I'm pretty sure the general view of who is middle class is determined by their income level. A plumber making $80K a year would probably be considered middle class by most, I'd think.

[WampusCat]

Prim is right. The terms mean different things here. Most Americans would consider doctors and lawyers to be upper class, and factory workers (other than those working at minimum wage) as middle class. a lot of my coworkers who were solidly middle class lost their jobs. The lucky ones had a working spouse. The others are barely hanging on.

I realize that I am in a changing industry, but it's a story repeated in many industries. And judging by the empty storefronts, small businesses aren't thriving either.

[elfshadow]

I would definitely agree that in the modern US, class is defined solely by income, not any type of job status. The plumber making $70,000 a year is in the same middle class as the teacher making $70,000 a year who is in the same middle class as the foreman making $70,000 a year, etc. I think that the economic crisis brought a lot of job cuts to these professions. My brother works in the tech industry--he graduated from college in 2008. He and his peers survived the rounds of layoffs in his company while many older managers didn't, simply because it costs more to pay an experienced employee than to pay an entry-level employee. Apparently, the value that the older employees' experience provided them was not enough for the company, who decided that the younger employees could do the same job for cheaper. I think this happened in many industries. It used to be that you worked for the same company for your entire life, and were rewarded for your loyalty. This is no longer the case, and even experienced older employees in white-collar positions have iffy job security.

I think this has absolutely affected middle class mentality and stability. On the outside, the middle class may be making about the same amount of money. On the inside, costs of living are rising rapidly. Not only are many middle-class workers losing their jobs, but their pay is not increasing at the rate to match the increased costs of living in the middle class. When I took a finance class my senior year in college, we calculated that the total cost of sending a student to our college (admittedly, an expensive private school) for four years would rise to over $1 million in twenty-five years if the current rate of tuition increases held (7% annually, with the total cost for four years now being $200,000). Now, clearly most people do not attend such expensive schools, and I for one was lucky enough to get a generous grant from the university to be able to afford the cost of attendance. But my family lies in the lower end of the middle class, and we qualify for financial aid that many middle-class families can't get. Most of the middle class lies in the college tuition "donut hole", where they can't afford to pay for it but aren't poor enough to qualify for financial aid.

As for whether or not to send kids to college, it is difficult to stay in the middle class at all in this era without a college education, especially for the younger generation. Many of the young men and women I graduated with fought for months after graduation to get entry-level office jobs, likely not in their desired field. Some are unemployed. And we are lucky to be able to use our university's name as leverage in the job search. Imagine trying to find a job as an entry-level secretary without a college education. Almost impossible! No, in this society, a college education has really become nearly a non-negotiable qualification in order to earn enough to be in the middle class.

[vison]

I agree that the distinction is only semantic. Americans, and to a certain extent, Canadians, tend to think that income alone determines your "class".

"Middle class", to me, does not include "working class" no matter how much money the working class person makes. But then, I have no problem at all defining my family as "working class". It is a badge of honour, to me.