Don't Ask Don't Tell: is the end near?
- Voronwë the Faithful
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The House has passed the stand-alone measure. The Senate appears to have sufficient votes, if they can actually get to come to a vote.
House passes 'don't ask, don't tell' repeal
House passes 'don't ask, don't tell' repeal
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
I saw that today, but I can't say I have a lot of faith in the Senate. I could see some stone walling in their future. While this version isn't tied to any other legislation, there is talk of the support being tied to whether the tax bill gets passed and we do have a lame duck Congress which may come into play.
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I will say this (though it may be a bit controversial). If it comes done to the current Senate spending the time to vote on and pass the New START treaty with Russia or voting on and passing DADT repeal, I would prefer that they do the former. As much as I would like to see DADT repealed, I think the treaty is much more important.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
I agree with you, Voronwë. Messing up the START treaty is the kind of irresponsible foolishness that comes back to bite you later.
(Although the sheer pettiness of demanding we wait to see what the Defense Dept. surveys show about the possible effects of repealing DADT, and then, once that report is in and shows--surprise--that nothing much would happen, still stalling, makes me grind my teeth.)
(Although the sheer pettiness of demanding we wait to see what the Defense Dept. surveys show about the possible effects of repealing DADT, and then, once that report is in and shows--surprise--that nothing much would happen, still stalling, makes me grind my teeth.)
- Primula Baggins
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And the fact that the Republicans will probably be able to use the START treaty to push the DADT vote off the agenda.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Unfortuately, the chances of both the treaty being ratified and DADT took a big hit today with the news that Oregon senator Ron Wyden is likely to miss both votes after being diagnosed with prostrate cancer and scheduling surgery for next week. Thankfully, his prognosis is good, but the timing is unfortunate, with both votes being so close.
Edit: Actually, his missing the vote may not be as much of a problem for the treaty ratification. If I understand correctly, ratification requires at least two thirds of those voting to approve it. So if all 100 Senators vote, 67 would be needed. However, if only 99, vote, only 66 would be needed. As opposed to the 60 vote requirement to defeat a filibuster which is determined by the number of total senators, regardless of how many actually vote. I think. Can anyone confirm that is correct?
Edit: Actually, his missing the vote may not be as much of a problem for the treaty ratification. If I understand correctly, ratification requires at least two thirds of those voting to approve it. So if all 100 Senators vote, 67 would be needed. However, if only 99, vote, only 66 would be needed. As opposed to the 60 vote requirement to defeat a filibuster which is determined by the number of total senators, regardless of how many actually vote. I think. Can anyone confirm that is correct?
Last edited by Voronwë the Faithful on Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- Primula Baggins
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Oh, no. Ron Wyden is a good guy. Not that I'd wish this on anyone.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Wyden is a good guy. I does sound like his prognosis if very good, however, since the cancer was caught early. And let me be clear that I am in no way suggesting that he should have postposed his surgery in order to make sure that he doesn't miss any votes. I certainly don't believe that is true.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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No, I would never imagine you thinking that way.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- Voronwë the Faithful
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The vote on Dont Ask Don't Tell is apparently now scheduled for Saturday (after a vote on the DREAM Act). Harry Reid abruptly pulled the omnibus spending bill off the schedule and replaced it with a temporary spending extension, which left more time for the other votes.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Four Republican Senators now have announced their support for the bill - in addition to Susan Collins, a co-sponsor, we now have Scott Brown (MA), Lisa Murkowski (AK - of write-in fame), and Olympia Snowe (ME).
See here.
See here.
I won't just survive
Oh, you will see me thrive
Can't write my story
I'm beyond the archetype
I won't just conform
No matter how you shake my core
'Cause my roots, they run deep, oh
When, when the fire's at my feet again
And the vultures all start circling
They're whispering, "You're out of time,"
But still I rise
This is no mistake, no accident
When you think the final nail is in, think again
Don't be surprised, I will still rise
Oh, you will see me thrive
Can't write my story
I'm beyond the archetype
I won't just conform
No matter how you shake my core
'Cause my roots, they run deep, oh
When, when the fire's at my feet again
And the vultures all start circling
They're whispering, "You're out of time,"
But still I rise
This is no mistake, no accident
When you think the final nail is in, think again
Don't be surprised, I will still rise
- Voronwë the Faithful
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- Primula Baggins
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That's wonderful news, Voronwë!
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- Primula Baggins
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The Senate just passed DADT repeal 65-31. So DADT is history (once Obama signs the legislation).
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Well, to be technical, after Obama signs the legislation there is a waiting period of 90 days waiting period and then the President, the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs will all have to certify that the repeal can proceed without damaging military readiness (though that should be a formality since all three have strongly called for repeal). It will probably be some months before the repeal is actually implemented.
Still, I am tempted to quote Vice President Biden's comment to President Obama about the health care law, except that it would include a banned word.
Still, I am tempted to quote Vice President Biden's comment to President Obama about the health care law, except that it would include a banned word.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- Primula Baggins
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I hope Obama does issue an order to stop all DADT investigations and discharge processes during those ninety days.
I suspect he will not. It might not look bipartisan.
I suspect he will not. It might not look bipartisan.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- Voronwë the Faithful
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As a practical matter, there is no way that there will be any investigations or discharges during the implementation period. But that won't be due to an executive order by Obama, nor should it be in my opinion. Secretary Gates has sufficient authority in that matter. The only practical effect that the delay will cause will be to delay allowing former servicemembers who have already been discharged under the policy but wish to enlist to do so.
I remember how bitterly people complained about President Bush consistently using executive orders to get around the will of congress. For President Obama to use an executive order to cancel a provision of this law would be just the same as that. It has nothing to do with being (or "looking") "bipartisan". It has to do with respecting the parameters of our system of checks and balances.
Edit to add: By the way among the yes votes was one by Senator Wyden, who unexpectedly returned to the Senate today for the vote.
I remember how bitterly people complained about President Bush consistently using executive orders to get around the will of congress. For President Obama to use an executive order to cancel a provision of this law would be just the same as that. It has nothing to do with being (or "looking") "bipartisan". It has to do with respecting the parameters of our system of checks and balances.
Edit to add: By the way among the yes votes was one by Senator Wyden, who unexpectedly returned to the Senate today for the vote.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."