What is the Tea Party?

[River]

And those leaders better have a plan, but a "plan" does not mean having a complete budget mapped out that you have to get passed for your plan to be put in motion. It means that whatever opportunities you have, you stick to your principles... for the tea party movement, those being smaller government in general.

That's tactics. That's part of a plan but you need strategy is well. It's fine to scream about spending cuts, but what gets cut? It's fine to answer that with "anything unnecessary" but then you have to define unnecessary. The problems in Washington are huge and there's not going to be anything simple about solving them, especially since you can't just take a candidate's word for it that they won't be seduced by the siren song on K Street. Furthermore, if people in Congress can't work together, nothing gets done...including the passing of budgets.

But then again, volume and slogans have a tendency to make me extremely mis-trustful.

[halplm]

Today's editorial of my Swiss news-paper is about the tea party and it's clearly called an extremists movement which is imho right according to European standards.

What do they claim is an extreme position the tea party movement holds?

[halplm]

And those leaders better have a plan, but a "plan" does not mean having a complete budget mapped out that you have to get passed for your plan to be put in motion. It means that whatever opportunities you have, you stick to your principles... for the tea party movement, those being smaller government in general.

That's tactics. That's part of a plan but you need strategy is well. It's fine to scream about spending cuts, but what gets cut? It's fine to answer that with "anything unnecessary" but then you have to define unnecessary. The problems in Washington are huge and there's not going to be anything simple about solving them, especially since you can't just take a candidate's word for it that they won't be seduced by the siren song on K Street. Furthermore, if people in Congress can't work together, nothing gets done...including the passing of budgets.

But then again, volume and slogans have a tendency to make me extremely mis-trustful.

What do you call "Hope and Change?"

This strategy by the left of trying to dismiss the tea party movement because it doesn't have a specific budget plan already determined is very tiresome.

Our elected congress can't come up with a budget!

What drives the tea party movement is principles. The people the movement wants to see in Washington are currently stating they share those principles. The tea party movement is tired of electing people who SAY they share those principles, but then write a check for anyone that asks once they get out of earshot of the voters. So if the people being elected now, turn out to be the same way, they will be voted out at the earliest possible chance.

That is why the republican insiders don't like the tea party movement any more than the democrats.

You can't start fixing the problems until people who actually want to fix those problems are elected. The problem doesn't need to be solved before someone is a valid candidate... or else we wouldn't have any problems.

[Frelga]

I think Tea Party faces the same problems as any organization created to oppose something. In this case, opposition is to government spending, but what is the party FOR? What is the next level on the work breakdown structure?

Here is the pie chart of the Federal spending. As you see, the four elephants are Social Security, defense, welfare and Medicare, accounting for more than 60% of the total.

Which of the following is the Tea Part for:

Deeply cutting Social Security payments, current or future?
Reducing defense spending?
Eliminating welfare/unemployment for current or future recipients?
Reducing or eliminating Medicare payments?

[halplm]

I'd say the movement is for all of those things, especially as only one of them is actually supposed to be a function of the federal government.

[Faramond]

Principles are meaningless if you won't tell the truth that goes with them. A principle of deep spending cuts is not possible without cutting or eliminating Social Security and Medicare. Of course the various tea party candidates and groups don't have to have detailed budget plans, but neither should they be allowed to simply make a full stop on their principle. The consequences of that principle matter and should be part of the public discourse.

If a grassroots tea party organization advocates for massively reduced spending but doesn't say a word about Social Security and Medicare then I will wonder if they have any inkling how the US budget is structured. I will wonder if there is anything but emotion behind the movement. You can win an election with emotion but you sure can't govern with it. As we have seen with the latest administration, I think.

If a tea party candidate for elected office campaigns on deep spending cuts but doesn't mention cutting Social Security or Medicare then I will think he or she is either dishonest or woefully ignorant. And most candidates have an incentive not to discuss cutting Social Security and Medicare because this is unthinkable to many voters.

I want a moderate Republican party that will sweep Pelosi out of power and send Reid into retirement and then govern with fiscal sanity. Instead the tea party has probably destroyed the Republican chances in several states and may help the Democrats hold on to slim majorities and give the Democrats power to not pass budgets or vote on extending tax cuts for two more years. I would say the reason the Republican establishment does not like the tea party movement is that if it takes over the Republican party it will put them in permanent minority party status. That's just reality.

[halplm]

I disagree, I think the Republican party was already dead, as it had no principles and no leadership. The Tea Party movement is the only thing that can save it at this point.

I don't think it will provide any help for democrats, or republicans that were not really republicans at all. It will be good for conservatives.

As for social security and medicare, I think a lot of voters DO think cuts can be made, or more accurately restructuring.

ANY politician that doesn't admit the two programs are unsustainable is just part of the problem. The fact that no politician wants to talk about it while campaigning makes perfect sense to me, but they still have to do something about it.

However, even if they can't fix those things right now, there's plenty of other waste that can be taken care of.

As far as what a "moderate" republican party is, I have no idea. I think that's what we've had... a party that spends on what they want, while not bothering to suggest not spending on what they don't want... trading their votes for spending on what they want, rather than trying to actually CUT SPENDING. What we need is a conservative choice... so it's not just a matter of choosing between far left progressive or "moderate" progressive that gives token speech to fiscal responsibility.

[nerdanel]

Here's a somewhat positive piece on the Tea Party from the Economist:

http://www.economist.com/node/17361396? ... eteapaties

It's fair as far as it goes (though I'm not as comfortable as The Economist in spinning "self-reliance" as an American virtue, where "self-reliance" adds up to "struggle to get by in the absence of necessary assistance"). But it does highlight the central problem with the Tea Party: their lack of reform proposals grounded in reality (in the sense that Faramond mentioned).

[RoseMorninStar]

The Tea Party in our area is closely affiliated with a group called 'Commonsense' which is made up of Christian fundamentalist extremists (think Westboro church types). They wish to take down public institutions .. libraries, public schools, local government ('Bleed the Beast') and they are very pro-active about it and have taken over many positions in our community. They drain public funds with endless lawsuits in an attempt to push through their religious agenda.

[SirDennis]

People make arguments based on the idea that their position is morally superior to others'.

People in line with the Tea Party movement, on principle alone, believe it is okay to profit from illness and medical misadventure.

Is this what you mean?