What is up with this?

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Infidel
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What is up with this?

Post by Infidel »

There are some Brits here yes?
Is this accurate?
UK Proposes All Paychecks Go to the State First
The UK's tax collection agency is putting forth a proposal that all employers send employee paychecks to the government, after which the government would deduct what it deems as the appropriate tax and pay the employees by bank transfer.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/39265847

An idea whose time has come for the U.S.?
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Alatar
of Vinyamar
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Post by Alatar »

That sounds strangely bizarre. We have PAYE (Pay as You Earn) here in Ireland, which means that Tax and Social Insurance are deducted by the employer and paid direct to the government, so I don't need to file a Tax Return. My Tax is paid as I earn, so no lump sums, and for the most part, less opportunity to accidentally or deliberately underpay or overpay tax. Only Self employed people file their own tax returns.

I think the UK work in a similar fashion, so why they would want to add an extra level of bureaucracy is beyond me.
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halplm
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Post by halplm »

It's quite simple. They can take as much as a they want claiming it's necessary to keep the government working, and then when they've overtaxed people... what are those people going to do about it?
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Pearly Di
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Post by Pearly Di »

Well, this is news to me :shock: so thanks for the heads-up. :D

Given the past record of government departments' competency in handling highly confidential data belonging to millions of hard-working, tax-paying UK citizens -- :roll: -- I think this proposal completely and utterly sucks and I wouldn't trust 'em as far as I could throw 'em.
Alatar wrote:That sounds strangely bizarre. We have PAYE (Pay as You Earn) here in Ireland, which means that Tax and Social Insurance are deducted by the employer and paid direct to the government, so I don't need to file a Tax Return. My Tax is paid as I earn, so no lump sums, and for the most part, less opportunity to accidentally or deliberately underpay or overpay tax. Only Self employed people file their own tax returns.

I think the UK work in a similar fashion
Indeed we do. 8) The exact same fashion, indeed!
so why they would want to add an extra level of bureaucracy is beyond me.
Exactly. :pccrash:
Last edited by Pearly Di on Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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vison
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Post by vison »

Bizarre. I suspect it's a hoax. I hope it's a hoax. What an expensive and wasteful system. The bad kind of socialism . . . ;)

Each month I remit my employees' income tax, Canada Pension contribution (matched dollar for dollar by me) and Employment Insurance (I pay 1.4 times what employees pay).

At the New Year I have to provide each employee with a T-4 slip - a statement of earnings and deductions - and then they file their income tax.

Alatar, what if you have other income beyond your employment earnings? I find it very odd that you don't have to file your own tax return.
Dig deeper.
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Pearly Di
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Post by Pearly Di »

vison wrote:The bad kind of socialism . . . ;)
Exactly. 8)

It does exist. :P
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Griffon64
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Post by Griffon64 »

South Africa had PAYE as well ( and something else ... I forget that acronym. ) The net result was that those who worked only for a straight up salary didn't need to file a tax return. The South African Revenue Service ( unfortunate acronym! ) would generate a boilerplate one on your behalf, and it would go through the normal channels and you'd get your final statement that nobody owes anybody anything.

If you had additional income, or you had an allowance of some sort that could impact your taxes, you had to file. But it lightened the burden, as far as base cases go, for both taxpayers and tax service workers by basically automating it.
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River
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Post by River »

We have PAYE as well. It's called a with-holding tax.

Anyway, I found the proposal.

Some relevant quotes (and I'm too lazy to futz with formatting so live with it or read the original):
PAYE requires employers1 to calculate and deduct tax and national insurance from the payments they make to their employees2. The
tax and NIC is paid over to HMRC shortly afterwards. But the employer only reports the details of the payments and deductions to HMRC once a year. This paper outlines an option, “Real Time Information”, for employers to report the payments and deductions more frequently – at the time of each payment.
4.1
The previous chapter outlined the advantages to PAYE brought by NPS which provides a comprehensive, single view of an individual’s employment income. This is a significant improvement, which addresses one of the shortfalls of the previous PAYE arrangements under which HMRC held this information on twelve separate databases.
4.2
Most PAYE arrangements remain the same, however, and in particular the data relating to amounts of tax and NIC collected during the year are still only sent by employers to HMRC once a year, after the tax year end.
4.3
HMRC has developed an option – Real Time Information – to obtain the information on deductions from employers on a real time basis. This would enable the PAYE system to cope much better with the work patterns of today which involve many more changes of jobs and rates of pay than in the past. It would also reduce the number of people needing an adjustment to their tax position at the end of the year.
4.4
The more frequent flow of information could improve the accuracy of tax credit and benefit payments and limit the extent to which claimants need to report changes of income.
4.5
Responsibility for the calculation of the amounts of tax, NIC and student loan repayments and their deduction would remain with employers.
4.6
Most employers now use computerised payroll systems which calculate deductions from an employee’s pay and the great majority of employees are now paid electronically.
4.7
With Real Time Information, employers paying electronically would send HMRC details of an employee’s pay; the deductions of tax, NIC and student loan repayments; together with information about the payee’s identity as part of making the payment to the employee. This would be for all employees, including those from whose wages the employer is not required to deduct any tax, NIC etc.
4.8
The information would be produced automatically by the computerised payroll system at the point of making the payment and would be sent to HMRC via the electronic payments system as part of the payment instructions.
And, just for emphasis:
4.5
Responsibility for the calculation of the amounts of tax, NIC and student loan repayments and their deduction would remain with employers.
Now, everyone, take a deep breath. It's not what you think. It's what already exists, just a bit souped up to account for the modern job market.

As an American, I don't have a dog in this fight and don't know much about the UK tax code anyway. I just threw this in because hysteria about "it could happen here!" was breaking out on another board I frequent and there's no reason or need for it.
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Túrin Turambar
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Post by Túrin Turambar »

Proposal = something some civil servant or academic has thought up in the bath that will probably never be heard from again.
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