Lies of the radical right

[yovargas]

Results of The Harris Poll of 2,320 adults surveyed online between March 1 and 8, 2010:

Republicans believe that President Obama:

Is a socialist (67%)
Wants to take away Americans' right to own guns (61%)
Is a Muslim (57%)
Wants to turn over the sovereignty of the United States to a one world government (51%);
Has done many things that are unconstitutional (55%).
Resents America's heritage (47%)
Does what Wall Street and the bankers tell him to do (40%)
Was not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president (45%)
Is the "domestic enemy that the U.S. Constitution speaks of" (45%)
Is a racist (42%)
Want to use an economic collapse or terrorist attack as an excuse to take dictatorial powers (41%)
Is doing many of the things that Hitler did (38%).
He may be the Anti-Christ (24%)
He wants the terrorists to win (22%)

(emphasis mine)
While few Democrats believe any of these things, the proportions of Independents who do so are close to the national averages.

Even if for some reason these number are hugely inflated, this is a terrifying finding. If I were a Republican, I'd be deeply concerned about the direction of my party.

[vison]

Well, yovargas, remember this:

There are lies, there are damned lies, and there are statistics.

Polls can often be made to say whatever you want them to. Maybe this poll is one of those.

I hope so.

[Primula Baggins]

I do, too, and it's certainly possible. And in this case the thing that's true of all polls may come into play: the people with the most passionate opinions are more likely to want to answer a poll and more likely to stick it out through all the questions. Republicans who are simply meh about Obama, or who oppose him on rational political/policy grounds, might not be interested in answering a bunch of bizarre questions about him.

[Frelga]

Good point, Prim. After question four I would have decided this was a prank and hung up.

[anthriel]

Wow. That's crazy. He resents America's heritage? Well, I'll bet he's not thrilled with the slavery part. But neither are a lot of us.

What a load of bunk.

[River]

Irrational people hold irrational beliefs and those are the types this poll selected for.

[Primula Baggins]

I do think it's alarming that a fair number of people believe those things, don't get me wrong. Recent events are showing the risk of frightening the less well informed. The harvest isn't just enthusiastic voters for conservative candidates.

But I really doubt that the proportion is that high.

[anthriel]

Polls are nice and anonymous, too. It's easy to be ugly and ridiculous if you know there's no accountability.

[halplm]

It's funny, I was thinking just today of starting a thread titles "Lies of the left"

Of course, my thread was going to be about actual lies, and not what some people say they believe in a poll...

[yovargas]

...actual lies, and not what some people say they believe in a poll...

What's the difference?

[tinwë]

I have a very dear friend who gently reminds me that not all republicans are like that, but the fact of the matter is, where I live the numbers in that poll are probably on the low side. Every republican that I know here (and most of the people I know here are republicans) believes most if not all of the things on that list, including him being the antichrist (yes, I’m being serious). The things I have heard since the passage of the health care bill have been shocking, but people here say those sort of things with impunity as if they are proud of the hatred they harbor for the man. Those of us in the minority here have learned to keep our mouths shut about it because many of these people are the movers and shakers who control the jobs around here. My employer is just as liberal as I am, but he has made it clear to me that I am not to publically express my political views because we would lose most of our clients if I did.

It’s pretty damned scary if you want to know the truth.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

tinwë, I suspect that there are other Republicans that you know who don't hold those views, even though you don't know that they don't.

[tinwë]

I certainly hope so. And I want to stress that it is not “all the republicans I know”, simply all of the ones I know where I live. But that covers a pretty diverse group of people, many of whom are, as I have told my friend, not wackos or crazies but otherwise nice and decent people, some of whom are even friends of mine, who for some reason that I cannot fathom seem to enthusiastically believe the most outrageous things.

[halplm]

...actual lies, and not what some people say they believe in a poll...

What's the difference?

Who out there is actually stating these beliefs as facts (which would of course, only be lies if they knew they were incorrect and were intentionally being deceptive)?

People believing whatever they want to believe doesn't even approach the level of a lie. The way the results (who knows what the actual questions were) were phrased doesn't even allow for a lie.

"He may be the anti-christ?" Sure, why not. Only a fool would think anyone risen to power as fast as he did with as large a following around the world as he has had would dismiss the possability.

So yeah, not so much with the lies.

Meanwhile, we have the left trying to smear the tea party movement by inventing racism and violence out of thin air... not to mention a President who promised no taxes on people earning less than $250K, only to sign a health bill that has tons of them. Is a broken promise a lie? I guess probably not, but he can't say it any more.

[Dave_LF]

Polls are nice and anonymous, too. It's easy to be ugly and ridiculous if you know there's no accountability.

It's also easy to be honest about things you wouldn't usually admit.

[Primula Baggins]

Hal, those events were not invented. They are real, serious, and scary, endangering children among others. Please stop.

Once again, because you want to believe something is a lie does not make it a lie. Actual events that occur in verifiable physical reality outweigh wishing for most people.

[Frelga]

"He may be the anti-christ?" Sure, why not. Only a fool would think anyone risen to power as fast as he did with as large a following around the world as he has had would dismiss the possability.

Wait, let me just clarify here. This sentence reads as if you do not dismiss the possibility that Obama might be an Anti-Christ. Did you intend that?

[halplm]

Hal, those events were not invented. They are real, serious, and scary, endangering children among others. Please stop.

Once again, because you want to believe something is a lie does not make it a lie. Actual events that occur in verifiable physical reality outweigh wishing for most people.

Oh, they are, are they? How many arrests? How many investigations by the FBI will turn up anything at all?

The coffin story was a complete lie.

The racist ephithats story was a complete lie.

Are there threats against congressmen? I'm sure there are. I'm sure there have been the last however many years you'd like to talk about. The effort now is not to protect people (even the children), it is to smear opposition and label them all as violent racists.

YOU stop.

[halplm]

"He may be the anti-christ?" Sure, why not. Only a fool would think anyone risen to power as fast as he did with as large a following around the world as he has had would dismiss the possability.

Wait, let me just clarify here. This sentence reads as if you do not dismiss the possibility that Obama might be an Anti-Christ. Did you intend that?

I certainly don't dismiss that possibility.

I doubt its true because he's screwed up so much, but his ability to deceive is certainly frightening.

[Frelga]

Thank you for clarifying. I did not want to assume.