Ban on Gay Men's Blood

Post by **anthriel** » Sat May 29, 2010 8:50 pm

Teremia wrote:I'm just saying that banning all Europeans (or people who've lived five years in Europe) seems to me taking caution to the point of silliness. What percentage of Europeans can be expected to come down with vCJD (i.e. mad cow for people)? Really not that high, especially outside of the UK.

Just looking very briefly, I find one paper in the International Journal of Epidemiology (by Marc Chadeau-Hyam and Annick Alpérovitch) predicting 33 future case of vCJD in France. That's not a large number. Banning Europeans (and hangers-on like me) from donating blood seems like overkill.

Our little lab community is currently in total shock... a woman I used to work with is currently dying of Crutzfeld-Jacob disease, yes, "Mad Cow Disease for people". Since she is a vegetarian and also a lesbian (very little body fluid transfer... quite the safest sexual orientation to be, epidemiologically speaking), the likely source of her infection is a blood transfusion she had while visiting Europe years ago. The disease can apparently lie dormant for a very long time.

She cannot sit up. She is dizzy to the point of insanity. She cannot eat, light hurts her eyes, she is constantly nauseated and in incredible pain. She will slide into dementia. Her brain is being consumed, slowly, as actual holes are forming at an ever increasing rate due to this prion infestation.

There is no cure.

She has somewhere between two months and two years to live. She is desperately praying for the two month option.

Suddenly, the cautions being taken to contain this horrid killer seem a bit less "silly", at least to me. 33 people dying of this sure looks significant, when you know one who is.

Post by **Lalaith** » Sat May 29, 2010 8:57 pm

Indeed.

I'm sorry for your friend. That's a terrible way to die.

Post by **anthriel** » Sat May 29, 2010 10:28 pm

It really is, Lali.

I asked Wampus if I could make a copy of that beautiful violin/harp CD that she and Gary made, hoping my friend might be able to enjoy that.

She can't talk to people... it hurts. She can't listen to books on tape... it hurts. Light hurts. Movement hurts. The only thing that she can draw any relief from right now is soft music.

Sat May 29, 2010 10:37 pm

My God, how horrible. My heart aches for your friend, Anthy, and for you too, because I know how empathetic you can be with other people's suffering.

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Sat May 29, 2010 11:15 pm

Anthy, that's terrible! I'm so sorry for your friend. And

for you as well.

Post by **MithLuin** » Sat May 29, 2010 11:28 pm

Prion diseases are evil.

Post by **Frelga** » Sun May 30, 2010 12:21 am

When it's someone you know, statistics do not apply.

OTOH, when you set policies that affect millions, you can only go by statistics. If the shortage of blood would cause hundreds of death a year, taking a chance on a handful infections makes sense. If there's plenty of blood, risking even a single death is reckless.

When it comes down to an individual, it all depends on which card you get dealt from the deck.

Post by **yovargas** » Sun May 30, 2010 12:32 am

Good god. Can't they just have her on morphine or something until the time comes?

Post by **anthriel** » Sun May 30, 2010 5:03 pm

Frelga wrote:When it's someone you know, statistics do not apply.

OTOH, when you set policies that affect millions, you can only go by statistics. If the shortage of blood would cause hundreds of death a year, taking a chance on a handful infections makes sense. If there's plenty of blood, risking even a single death is reckless.

I was all set to fire it up on this comment, Frelga, and then I read it again. (Always a good idea!

)

Fact is, you are right.

It's a brutal truth... blood shortages can kill people. But is there a blood shortage now in the USA? I'm not sure that I knew that to be true. (And Mary Todd did not acquire her killer disease in the USA, as far as we know... donation regulations in the USA did not affect her.)

I know that there is concern over blood shortages in the USA; they have blood collection rallies from time to time, and there are people (especially O negs) who are called to donate because there is concern over an inadequate supply.

However, working in the lab and getting all the scuttlebutt first hand, I believe I myself would have known (and everyone else, too, the media being fairly thorough about reporting disasters) if there were an actual shortage which was costing lives. So far, it looks like barring people from donating who may have been exposed to MCD is only hurting the pride of those not allowed to donate. That I can live with. (Remember, I've been barred as well!)

However, if there were a dangerous shortage, then allowing people possible exposure to this would be justified; one life vs. many. That is just how it works. Although tough noogies for those like Mary Todd, I suppose. Just the flip of a card.

Yov, (

btw, it's been way too long), that is a wonderful thought. I'll try to catch up with Karen, Todd's partner, to see what they are doing for her pain management. Although I suspect that when your entire neurological system physically has holes in it, perhaps conventional treatment meant to affect that system may not work quite as well. I hope I'm wrong, though. I've never prayed that someone dies quickly before, but I am now.

On a side note: Karen in is the military, and cannot take FLMA to attend Todd right now, because she cannot reveal that Todd is her partner. I'm not sure when this dumb "don't ask don't tell" garbage is going bye bye, but this is WRONG. These women have been together for 20 years. Todd is dying. Karen has served her country faithfully all this time. Good grief, we have some odd policies.

Sir V: you know me too well.

Mith: I agree! How can you kill something that is not living??

Prim: Thank you. We are all still in shock!!

Sun May 30, 2010 5:16 pm

Anthriel wrote:On a side note: Karen in is the military, and cannot take FLMA to attend Todd right now, because she cannot reveal that Todd is her partner. I'm not sure when this dumb "don't ask don't tell" garbage is going bye bye, but this is WRONG. These women have been together for 20 years. Todd is dying. Karen has served her country faithfully all this time. Good grief, we have some odd policies.

Yes, this pisses me off. And I put this one completely on the Republicans. Obama and the Democrats in Congress are making every effort to change this in a responsible way, allowing the military to implement with affecting military readiness, etc. etc. (as if it really would affect it any way). But the Republicans -- led by your senator Mr. McCain -- are fighting it tooth and nail. I just hope when the McCain-led filibuster comes to a test, there are more Republicans that are willing to cross party lines and vote for the repeal than there are Democrats that vote against it (fortunately it looks like even Lieberman and Nelson are likely to be onboard on this one). Your story is such a poignant example of why this policy is so ridiculous.

you know me too well

Not well enough, my friend, but I keep trying.

Post by **Frelga** » Sun May 30, 2010 5:31 pm

Anthy, thank you for giving me the benefit of doubt.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant - it seems that at this time, the restrictions on blood donations aren't putting lives at risk, so there is no great pressure to repeal them. And yes to everything you said about DADT. What a terrible spot to be in.

Post by **WampusCat** » Sun May 30, 2010 5:46 pm

Anthy, I hope my music makes your friend's pain a bit more bearable. My prayers go with it.

Protecting the nation's blood supply is essential, but banning whole sectors of the population from donating won't do that. Testing every donation is the only way to ensure safety. Apparently that's already done for HIV, so gay men certainly should be allowed to donate.

Post by **anthriel** » Sun May 30, 2010 7:57 pm

Wampus, there is no test for MCD, that I am aware of. Banning "whole sectors" does seem to be the only way to protect people from that. At the moment, anyway.

According to Karen, Mary Todd has not been able to donate blood for the many years since she got the transfusion in Europe. What a godsend the "banning of whole sectors" (those potentially exposed to MCD) was for the many people who might have received her blood.

I am not impuning gay men's ability to donate... not sure why that came up again, or if it was directed to me, but just so's you know.

I don't know enough about the efficacy of current testing to have an opinion on that, at the moment. Seems like you do know about it, so I will agree with you, not having done the homework myself.

Sir V, John McCain may be a (current) senator of Arizona, but he is hardly "mine", in that I do not support his position on this ridiculously archaic ruling, as I mentioned above. Hopefully we do have some Republicans with an ounce of sense ready to "cross the aisle" to support sensible legislation such as this. Crossing the aisle has not been too fashionable lately, however, in either direction.

Frelga:

You are such a kind woman.

Sun May 30, 2010 8:40 pm

Anthy, my apologies. I certainly did not mean to imply that you supported McCain position in this issue, particularly since you were the one who brought up how ridiculous the don't ask don't tell policy (which I note was implemented under a Democratic president) is. But sadly, it appears that McCain is taking such a hardline position on this issue (and other issues) is because he is being challenged from still further to the right, and apparently he feels that he needs to prove his conservative bona fides. It is a sad state of affairs, I agree.

Post by **anthriel** » Sun May 30, 2010 9:26 pm

It is really sad. McCain has always been a Republican who was a "maverick"... sometimes going against the party doctrine based on his personal beliefs about what was right and wrong.

He's not being allowed that latitude right now.

He may well fail in his bid for re-election in the primary, because he's not conservative enough. So he sure has to look, walk, and talk like a hard line conservative, when we know he really is not.

I'm still hopeful about DADT. It sure is a stupid policy, and it needs to go bye bye NOW.

Post by **MithLuin** » Sun May 30, 2010 10:00 pm

Morphine can certainly achieve the goal of a quick death. There are forms of "hospice" that consist of 'give the patient morphine in such high doses that he/she is dead in less than a week.' It's legal in most places, because you are simply managing the pain, and the death is a...side effect. It's not referred to as assisted suicide or euthanasia, but it would be difficult to deny that is the result.

Obviously you couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't do that to someone who isn't in any pain, but in your coworker's case....certainly that isn't the issue.

Post by **yovargas** » Sun May 30, 2010 10:18 pm

Yeah, euthanasia seems so obviously the right choice in this situation...

Post by **Frelga** » Sun May 30, 2010 11:23 pm

I don't know if it's a choice Anthy's friend would want to make. If she, or someone in her situation, did, I really don't see where anyone else has the right to say that no, she must not.

Anthy, I missed you around here.

Sun May 30, 2010 11:34 pm

Yeah, I agree. (With both of those statements.)

Post by **tinwë** » Mon May 31, 2010 12:02 am

Anthy, I just saw this. I'm so sorry for your friend. What a horrible thing to have to have happen.

I agree about the DADT. Let's hope its days are numbered.