Anti-Semitism is alive and well and living in America

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Two South Carolina GOP County Chairmen wrote an editorial in a local newspaper, defending SC Senator Jim DeMint from criticism from a Democratic state legislator regarding DeMint's refusal to take earmark federal funds for the state. Well and good; I have no problem with their defending him, and I actually might even agree with the substance of their argument. If I could get past the way that they make their point to even think about whether I agree with them.

There is a saying that the Jews who are wealthy got that way not by watching dollars, but instead by taking care of the pennies and the dollars taking care of themselves. By not using earmarks to fund projects for South Carolina and instead using actual bills, DeMint is watching our nation’s pennies and trying to preserve our country’s wealth and our economy’s viability to give all an opportunity to succeed.

http://thetandd.com/articles/2009/10/18 ... 566587.txt

I have little doubt that these two gentlemen were not intending to be anti-Semitic in these remarks. I am sure that they were not consciously invoking centuries-old extremely hurtful stereotypes. In fact, I bet if asked they would say that they meant to be complimentary to "the Jews" by praising "their" thriftiness.

This is the primary way that anti-Semitism manifests itself in America in this day and age. Thankfully, we don't often hear about the burnt synagogues and other overt examples of anti-Semitism that were quite common when I was growing up. But this type of thing shows how deep-rooted the attitudes about Jewish people is. And I want to emphasize that this is not a Republican thing; I have seen exactly this type of attitude exhibited by some of the most "liberal" people that I know.

Jews are still very much "other" to much of this country. Largely assimilated, but neither understood, nor trusted. The same attitude is reflected here that motivated my young classmates in the small town that I spent the early part of my childhood in to throw pennies at me and yell "Jew-begger, Jew-begger." Reading this editorial brings up all the same feelings of puzzled, painful alienation that I experienced in those long-ago days.

[Primula Baggins]

Yikes, Voronwë.

This sounds like some kind of weird throwback to me—something straight out of the bad old days. Clearly these two men have no idea that what they're saying will or should offend anyone; to them it's probably just "what everyone thinks." And maybe, in their circles, it is. That's horrifying.

I wish it were also surprising. :|

I agree that it is not a political thing. I hope that it's a generational one, dying out over time in more and more places. The prejudice my grandfather often expressed in casual conversation is something my children have never heard from anyone in their family—and not because it's unspoken, but because it's unfelt.

[halplm]

Indeed, just look at the past statements of Al sharpton for more evidence.

[MithLuin]

Yes, I agree that this falls firmly under the definition of "stereotyping," being perhaps a textbook example.

It's worth noting that they are referring to a saying they are both doubtless familiar with, leading to your (very generous) contention that they don't intend their statement to carry a racial overtone. Meaning, it's just part of that collected wisdom that gets passed down, not reflecting on anyone in particular, per se....

...though it would be best if it could stop being passed down.

For what it is worth (and I think it is worth rather little, particularly in America), the three major monotheistic religions (Jewish, Christian and Muslim) had prohibitions against lending money at interest. As the economy changed (ie, 'inflation' was invented) and the value of money became more fluid over time, it became impractical to lend without interest.

Guess which group of people was marginalized and shut out of most forms of enterprise in Medieval European society?

So, yes, the Jewish community reversed the prohibition on usury first (though obviously the Christians and Muslims followed suit). There is an historical basis for associating Jewish people with the field of money-lending. Someone from Shakespeare's time can perhaps be forgiven for making the association. Like most stereotypes, there is a cultural reality that set it in motion, and like most steotypes...it is largely inaccurate. This historical association has no basis in American history that I am aware of.

For what it is worth, I grew up being told that the Jewish community was running Hollywood, not the banks. Not sure that's any better, but just to give an example of how stereotypes do change in time.

The cure has always been to meet actual real Jewish people and learn more about them. Not sure what the Jewish population of South Carolina is like, but maybe it's rather small?

[Sunsilver]

South Carolina? 50 years ago, segregation there was most likely a public reality. The States has come a long way within my lifetime. However, it's not surprising to see that old stereotypes are still deeply ingrained.

I, too, remember hearing steryotypical language when I was growing up: "He jewed me out of $50 bucks!", for example.

Fortunately, where I live in Ontario, this language is a thing of the past.

My father's people were farmers, and few went past the 10th grade, or even the 8th. Sometimes their ignorance could be embarrassing.

One day, my parents had invited my dad's brother, Leonard, his wife, Betty, and his son, Earl, to have lunch with them in Yorkdale Mall in Toronto. Yorkdale is quite close to Toronto's Jewish corridor on Bathurst St, so many of the customers are Jewish. I'm not sure exactly what my uncle said, as I wasn't there, but he repeated some nasty comments about the Jews that he'd probably heard from other people. He lived on the farm his entire life, and I doubt he'd ever even talked to a Jew, or met one before.

My nephew, Earl, suffered from muscular dystrophy, and had great difficulty walking. He slipped on the tile floor, and fell. Before my family realized what had happened, a young Jewish man and his wife/girlfriend rushed over to Earl, and asked him if he was okay. When they were sure he was fine, they helped him to his feet. He thanked them profusely.

When my family resumed walking, Mom turned to Leonard, and said, "What do you think of the Jews now?"

Leonard gave an embarrassed grin, and said, "I think I'll just keep my mouth shut from now on!"

[Primula Baggins]

Hal, are you under the impression that Al Sharpton has fans here?

[River]

Guess which group of people was marginalized and shut out of most forms of enterprise in Medieval European society?

So, yes, the Jewish community reversed the prohibition on usury first (though obviously the Christians and Muslims followed suit). There is an historical basis for associating Jewish people with the field of money-lending. Someone from Shakespeare's time can perhaps be forgiven for making the association. Like most stereotypes, there is a cultural reality that set it in motion, and like most steotypes...it is largely inaccurate. This historical association has no basis in American history that I am aware of.

Yes, for a long time a long time ago, money-lending and finance were one of the few professions open to Jews. Whether they liked it or not. And people tend to have love-hate relationships with their creditors. In more modern times, I'm not sure what the deal is. Ultra-orthodox Jews do stick out from the crowd, but so do some flavors of very fundamentalist Christians. Honestly, I think the historical association is an old hold-over that should just go way, but it won't. It won't because, even though Jews are relatively scarce, Jews do tend to end up well-educated and education is a path to a comfy life. And since there aren't that many but they do seem to do so well, people get resentful and assume there's some sort of cabal. There isn't, of course. But what did sense have to do with any of this?

I think a lot of the issues people develop with stereotypes and prejudice comes from lack of exposure to the people involved. This is true across the board, for any group, and in the void, bad things can grow. I grew up rather blissfully believing that this anti-Semitic crud had been buried in the past, something one only encountered in books or viewings of Fiddler on the Roof. I lived in Bethesda, MD until I was 11 and there was a huge Jewish community in the area so, to me, Judaism was just part of an incredibly rich cultural landscape I lived in. I didn't even realize how scarce Jews actually are until my family moved to Seattle. We didn't get any of the high holy days off and I wondered what the Jewish kids were going to do and then I realized there weren't any. :/

[Ellienor]

Sorry, V. I was actually pondering that on my drive down this morning and realized exactly what you said, i.e., although on the face the comment could be construed as praising of Jews, the fact that all Jewish people are characterized with this comment and singling out Jewish people is wrong.

I grew up in Los Angeles and many of the neighbors were Jewish. I recall the blue lights they would use on their homes at the holidays. It came as a surprise to me when I grew up and realized that some people have problems with Jewish people.

I'm glad they got called out, and the county chairmen have certainly apologized in a very sincere manner.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Have they? That's good to know. I'll have to see if I can track down what they said. I do believe that they were not intending to be offensive or hurtful. But I'm not sure that that makes is better.

[vison]

The various kings, dukes, popes and potentates of Medieval Europe needed the Jews. They would borrow vast, enormous, unimaginable sums from Jewish lenders to finance wars, mostly, and then, when it suited them, they would repudiate the loans and turn the Jews over to the mob. The ordinary person did not borrow money from Jews, the ordinary person probably didn't borrow money from anyone, ordinary people never saw much money from any source.

The vicious anti-Semitism of many Europeans (and others) is rooted in these long-ago policies of kings, etc.; it enabled them to refuse to repay the money. The rulers and popes understood quite well that by stigmatizing the Jews as Christ-killers, well-poisoners, and by making other vile accusations, they were sure the poor money-lenders were never going to try to bring them to justice: because they were dead, or fled.

Not all kings, popes, dukes and potentates were that short-sighted, though. Some might actually have been humane men. But some simply realized it was easier to keep the Jews around and protect them occasionally - as long as the funds were there when they needed them.

The fur trade is another long-traditional Jewish business, as is dealing in gems. Portable wealth, you can run with it, if you have to.

The modern anti-Semite is often merely ignorant, I guess. But I have a hard time cutting them any slack at all.

Then we have the very modern "anti-Semitism" of some Middle Easterners. That is not rooted in the old slanders of Medieval Europe, but IMHO has been skilfully created by Israel's enemies. It is not ancient, the earlier days of Islam were marked by tolerance for the Jews, the people of the book.

[halplm]

Hal, are you under the impression that Al Sharpton has fans here?

How about Mel Gibson then? Sorry, not trying to minimize the issue, it's just that people tend to forgive and forget, which is both good and bad...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I certainly have not forgotten Mel Gibson anti-Semitic conduct. Or Al Sharpton's.

[TheEllipticalDisillusion]

I wouldn't forgive Gibson, Sharpton or Jackson for their anti-Semetic remarks.

These two members of the GOP may not have intended their remarks, but how can you make those remarks without knowing what they insinuate? If I said to my gf (who is Jewish), wow, you're really good at saving pennies? What else could I be insinuating other than the stereotype of Jews? Certainly these two members did nothing to dispel the notion of idiots in the GOP.

[Primula Baggins]

Whose notion is that, TED? Please, let's keep this civil. Idiots are present in all parties; it's unfair to point them out in only one.

[TheEllipticalDisillusion]

Yes, idiots are.. and that is what I was talking about: idiots in the GOP. If you want me to talk about idiots in other parties, open a thread about them.

I'll correct one thing: MY notion. It's entirely MY opinion. Clearer?

[Primula Baggins]

Yes, it is. Thanks.

[Inanna]

Reading this thread makes me realize how far Indians have to come in even acknowledging that such stereotypes are demeaning. Listen in into a within-Indian conversation some time - especially from the generation just before mine. If you can hear anyone being discussed without a comment like, "after all, he's a XXXX, or from YYYY", I'll bite my foot (really).

[superwizard]

Then we have the very modern "anti-Semitism" of some Middle Easterners. That is not rooted in the old slanders of Medieval Europe, but IMHO has been skilfully created by Israel's enemies. It is not ancient, the earlier days of Islam were marked by tolerance for the Jews, the people of the book.

Sadly I have to agree with vison. When I lived in the Middle East I frequently overheard anti-semitic statements coming from people and I would end up correcting the person and arguing about the issue with them. And yes this issue is definitely tied very directly to the Palestinian/Israeli issue. A lot of it has come from leaders trying to mobilize support from their people and it's just easy to single out and attack Jews in the Middle East. I must also point out though, that politics on both sides affects this issue. I really don't want to diverge this topic and make it about politics but it is true that actions on both sides have helped fuel this prejudice.

Even sadder is the fact that this isn't one-sided - I have heard anti-arab remarks from Israelis too. In fact just yesterday my (Jewish Israeli) friend told me that last week he had told one of his friends (also Jewish Israeli) that he knew a couple of Arabs that could help him with something. His friend's response? No I don't want their help. I don't trust Arabs. Now I rarely get offended and I usually take things with a laugh if I can. This statement however really offended me-it just seemed so mean spirited.

What I really think is necessary is more human interaction between the groups. I spent 8 years in the Middle East. How many Jews did I meet? None. Zero. Zip. Even if some happened to be Jewish chances are they never admitted it for fear of negative repercussions and you know what? I don't blame them. In fact I told one of my Jewish friends who was going to the Middle East not to say that he was Jewish! That needs to change if tensions are to be diffused between the groups IMHO...

I aplogize V if I went off topic...

[anthriel]

I wouldn't forgive Gibson, Sharpton or Jackson for their anti-Semetic remarks.

Good for you. The comments made were despicable.

These two members of the GOP may not have intended their remarks, but how can you make those remarks without knowing what they insinuate?

Ignorance exists.

I heard my mom the other night talking about Pres. Obama (she is a Democrat, and supports him), and she said "she didn't see a colored man when she looked at him". I cringed to hear that, because even though I know she meant well with that comment, I also have African American friends who really, really hate that particular phrase from white people. The white person is saying, "I see you as human", and the black person is hearing, "Oh, even though you're a black man, I can look past that". Or, as Oprah said, "If you don't see color when you look at me, you don't see ME."

I guess my point is that as crazy as those remarks were, they may not necessarily have been made out of some sense of malice toward Jews; the (incidentally GOP) members were quite possibly indeed ignorant. Ignorance at that level is pretty scary, but I believe it exists.

Sometimes, though, it's difficult to meter out the difference between ignorance and malice. I found this quote which I think is quite germane here:

There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion.
Lord Acton

Which I think agrees perfectly with superwizard:

What I really think is necessary is more human interaction between the groups.

Agreed. These sort of comments, from the quite incidentally GOP members (I agree with Prim, this sort of thing is truly everywhere), and the sort of thing that superwizard experienced, can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities.

We need to be contrary to ignorance and narrow-mindedness. We need to discuss them until they cannot bear it, until they fall apart. We need to know better, and to choose better.

We need superwizard to stop by more often.

[yovargas]

In fact I told one of my Jewish friends who was going to the Middle East not to say that he was Jewish! That needs to change if tensions are to be diffused between the groups IMHO...

Funny, as that same mentality has been used to encourage homosexuals to come out everywhere they are. It would be a very positive thing for society as a whole if that happened, but it can be very hard and dangerous for individuals. I think that makes it a very personal decision. Interesting...

[/slight OT]