Roe v Wade has been overturned. How do you feel about that?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

No, I don't think so. He is just being Kennedy. He after all was one of the three authors of the controlling plurality opinion in the last major abortion decision, Planned Parenthood v. Casey (along with the now-retired O'Connor and Souter) that established the undue burden test that this decision relies upon and elaborates.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Norma McCorvey, the "Jane Roe" of Roe v. Wade, who then went on to become an anti-abortion activist, has passed away.

[anthriel]

Wow. Thank you for the post, Sir V, I had no idea about the arc of her life and beliefs. She was an interesting woman.

[Frelga]

WTF, Ohio?

Ohio bill orders doctors to ‘reimplant ectopic pregnancy’ or face ‘abortion murder’ charges

The bill is sponsored by representatives Candice Keller and Ron Hood, and co-sponsored by 19 members of Ohio’s 99-member House.

“Reimplantation is not physiologically possible. Women with ectopic pregnancies are at risk for catastrophic hemorrhage and death in the setting of an ectopic pregnancy, and treating the ectopic pregnancy can certainly save a mom’s life,” said [Dr Chris Zahn, vice-president of practice activities at the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists] .

[Inanna]

Oh, shoot me now. WTF.

[River]

The technology to reimplant an ectopic pregnancy does not exist and would be an ethical minefield to test in humans anyway. Anyone who says otherwise is either misinformed or deliberately spreading falsehoods. This bill is pure showmanship written by grifters for their ignorant prey with potentially devastating consequences for the women with ectopic pregnancies, their partners, their current and/or future children, and, of course, the doctors treating them.

If the Ohio legislators really want to rescue ectopic pregnancies, the way to go about it is to establish a research institute with scientists, doctors, and bioethicists to develop the techniques and find a way through the ethical minefield. Just throwing out a mandate for the impossible achieves nothing more than some cute headlines and chyrons in the mass media. It is not helpful and it will not stimulate anything helpful to happen.

[Frelga]

Just throwing out a mandate for the impossible achieves nothing more than some cute headlines and chyrons in the mass media. It is not helpful and it will not stimulate anything helpful to happen.

It could also kill women through denying them life saving health care. Given how obvious this consequence is, I have to assume it is intended.

Note that this is not an attention seeking move by a lone cook. It's cosponsored by a fifth of the Ohio legislature.

[River]

Note that this is not an attention seeking move by a lone cook. It's cosponsored by a fifth of the Ohio legislature.

I know. Some of them probably know better and some of them probably don't. A bill written by grifters and their marks for more marks. I'm sure many of them have sincerely held beliefs about abortion and I'm sure their supporters do as well, but if you let your sincerely held belief trump reality (in this case by legally requiring doctors to breach all their professional ethics and perform an imaginary medical procedure) you've fallen prey to magical thinking. Unfortunately, magical thinking is a symptom of mental illness. Even more unfortunately, this particular manifestation of magical thinking could end up driving ethical OB/GYNs and CNMs out of Ohio.

A more constructive outlet for the sincerely held beliefs of Ohioans that ectopic pregnancies should somehow result in full-term babies would, once again, be funding the scientific and medical research that would make such a thing possible. We'd probably learn a lot about what causes them to happen, and maybe what causes miscarriages in general to happen, along the way. Think of what that could do for couples struggling with fertility. There'd be an ethical minefield in getting the research translated to the clinic, but if the people of Ohio sincerely believe that this needs to be a thing, they can also hire bioethicists to help navigate the minefield.

[Frelga]

I don't think "earnest belief" is a good enough excuse for laws that will kill people.

[River]

Nor do I. But clearly there's a demand for such laws, given that one has been delivered. Who needs fertile females and competent doctors anyway? Back in the good old days, men were men and women died in their child-bearing years and everybody liked it.

Except for my dad's mother, who ended up being raised by her aunt because her mom died delivering her and her father couldn't cope with being a single parent to five kids in rural Nebraska in the early 20th century...

[Frelga]

At least back when "my mother died giving birth" was an unremarkable back story, people generally did their best NOT to make that happen.

[RoseMorninStar]

I wouldn't consider myself an advocate of abortion rights but I'm REALLY not an advocate of congress(men) especially making legislation of this type. They are not doctors and the ideas and beliefs that make it into legislation prove their ignorance &/or malice toward women and their desire to control them.

Some lawmakers have wanted laws in which women who have miscarriages are punished for 'murder'. About 1/4-1/5th of all pregnancies end in miscarriage (spontaneous abortion) and it is incredible that women are blamed and vilified for something that is a common, natural occurrence. I miscarried several very much wanted pregnancies (years ago). Even people who knew me and knew I wanted the pregnancy questioned 'what I had done' to 'make that happen'. (I think of vison as I say this:) Not all zygotes or embryos are meant to come to term. Not all pregnancies are viable to be carried full term. There are so many factors involved and considerations to be made and they should all be made out of compassion. Vilification & punishment (for the woman having sex) seems to be of greater concern for these 'lawmakers'.

While abortion shouldn't be taken lightly it should be a decision between a woman and her doctor. Abortion should be available and SAFE. These stupid laws make me sick especially since they seem to be so concerned about the tiniest zygote, but have so little care for those who are already here.

As you come into our town (from 2 different directions) there are 'every life is a miracle/life is precious' pro-life (anti-abortion) signs. It annoys me to no end that both of them feature blue-eyed white babies. What about the inner city black teenager? Is their life a miracle? Is it precious? What about the Hispanic child at the border? The middle-aged woman with no health care? A homeless man? A family going hungry? The people in Michigan with poisoned drinking water? UGH!! /rant (for now).

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I wouldn't consider myself an advocate of abortion rights but I'm REALLY not an advocate of congress(men) especially making legislation of this type.

The main driving force behind this bill (which I should note has no chance of ever actually becoming law), is a woman, Candice Keller. She is the same woman that came under fire for claiming after the Dayton mass shooting that such events were due to, among to, among other things, drag queen advocates, homosexual marriage, open borders and Barack Obama.

[Frelga]

Malicious ignorance is not just a Y-linked trait.

[Sunsilver]

Here's what makes me angry:

[elengil]

Yes. They are pro-birth (mostly, I realize this is a broad generalization), they aren't pro-life. If they were pro-life, they'd care as much about actual living people as they do about the unborn.

[Dave_LF]

I wouldn't consider myself an advocate of abortion rights but I'm REALLY not an advocate of congress(men) especially making legislation of this type.

The main driving force behind this bill (which I should note has no chance of ever actually becoming law), is a woman, Candice Keller. She is the same woman that came under fire for claiming after the Dayton mass shooting that such events were due to, among to, among other things, drag queen advocates, homosexual marriage, open borders and Barack Obama.

People think of abortion restrictions as something men impose on women, but if you look at the gender breakdown, support is almost exactly 50/50.

[RoseMorninStar]

People think of abortion restrictions as something men impose on women, but if you look at the gender breakdown, support is almost exactly 50/50.

That may be, but the majority of legislators are men and it's especially grating and demeaning. Idiot legislators making comments about how women who are raped can't get pregnant, etc.. etc.. I cannot help but wonder what the attitude would be if the tables were turned. And I'm well aware that there is plenty of malicious ignorance to cover both genders. Unfortunately.

Sunny..

[Frelga]

Not to be outdone...

A Pennsylvania bill would require death certificates for fertilized eggs that never implant in the uterus

Anti-abortion lawmakers in Pennsylvania want to pass a bill that would require burials and, as a result, death certificates for "fetal remains," which in their terms includes any fertilized eggs that never implanted in a person's uterus.

Fertilized eggs must divide to become the ball of cells that implants in the uterus in order for a pregnancy to occur. 
Women, and even their doctors, usually can't tell when fertilized eggs don't implant in the uterus because those eggs typically dissolve in utero and are shed through a woman's menstrual lining every month, making them undetectable.

[RoseMorninStar]

Seriously. UGH.
Does anyone remember Nicolae Ceaușescu? The Romanian communist politician? He wanted to grow a huge workforce so he made women of childbearing age submit to monthly exams. If they conceived they got extra food rations (while many people went hungry). Birth control was strictly forbidden and if women were found to be preventing conception or failed to conceive they were punished. Many people had more children than they could afford, feed, or care for so many of them were taken by the state and put in state run orphanages where they were rarely touched, cared for, or spoken to. Few had toys or had ever been outside. Many of the children ended up with AIDS because they would vaccinate them by sharing needles. They were often beaten and abused. The people and children of Romania were scarred from this invasive brutality. It wasn't that wasn't long ago. Women were treated like baby factories. Things didn't end well for Nicolae (or his wife). Death by firing squad. Executed, Christmas 1989.