Are video games harmful?
Are video games harmful?
Discuss!
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
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sauronsfinger
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Better question:
given the vast amounts of time many young people spend on playing video games, could their time be better spent in more educational, athletic and constructive ways which will improve them as a person and teach them things which will help and aid them in other facets of real life?
given the vast amounts of time many young people spend on playing video games, could their time be better spent in more educational, athletic and constructive ways which will improve them as a person and teach them things which will help and aid them in other facets of real life?
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers
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sauronsfinger
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VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES CAN INCREASE AGGRESSION
May Be More Harmful Than Violent Television and Movies Because of the Interactive Nature of the Games
WASHINGTON - Playing violent video games like Doom, Wolfenstein 3D or Mortal Kombat can increase a person's aggressive thoughts, feelings and behavior both in laboratory settings and in actual life, according to two studies appearing in the April issue of the American Psychological Association's (APA) Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. Furthermore, violent video games may be more harmful than violent television and movies because they are interactive, very engrossing and require the player to identify with the aggressor, say the researchers.
"One study reveals that young men who are habitually aggressive may be especially vulnerable to the aggression-enhancing effects of repeated exposure to violent games," said psychologists Craig A. Anderson, Ph.D., and Karen E. Dill, Ph.D. "The other study reveals that even a brief exposure to violent video games can temporarily increase aggressive behavior in all types of participants."
The first study involved 227 college students who completed a measure of trait aggressiveness and reported their actual aggressive behaviors (delinquency) in the recent past. They also reported their video game playing habits. "We found that students who reported playing more violent video games in junior and high school engaged in more aggressive behavior," said lead author Anderson, of Iowa State University. "We also found that amount of time spent playing video games in the past was associated with lower academic grades in college."
In the second study, 210 college students played either a violent (Wolfenstein 3D) or nonviolent video game (Myst). A short time later, the students who played the violent video game punished an opponent (received a noise blast with varying intensity) for a longer period of time than did students who had played the nonviolent video game.
"Violent video games provide a forum for learning and practicing aggressive solutions to conflict situations," said Dr. Anderson. "In the short run, playing a violent video game appears to affect aggression by priming aggressive thoughts. Longer-term effects are likely to be longer lasting as well, as the player learns and practices new aggression-related scripts that can become more and more accessible for use when real-life conflict situations arise."
"One major concern is the active nature of the learning environment of the video game," say the authors. "This medium is potentially more dangerous than exposure to violent television and movies, which are known to have substantial effects on aggression and violence."
Article: "Video Games and Aggressive Thoughts, Feelings, and Behavior in the Laboratory and in Life," Craig A. Anderson, Ph.D., Iowa State University of Science and Technology and Karen E. Dill, Ph.D., Lenoir-Rhyne College, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Vol. 78, No. 4.
(Full text of the article is available from the APA Public Affairs Office or at http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp784772.pdf)
Reporters: Karen E. Dill, Ph.D., can be reached by telephone at (828) 328-7209
The American Psychological Association (APA), in Washington, DC, is the largest scientific and professional organization representing psychology in the United States and is the world's largest association of psychologists. APA's membership includes more than 159,000 researchers, educators, clinicians, consultants and students. Through its divisions in 53 subfields of psychology and affiliations with 59 state, territorial and Canadian provincial associations, APA works to advance psychology as a science, as a profession and as a means of promoting human welfare.
# # #
May Be More Harmful Than Violent Television and Movies Because of the Interactive Nature of the Games
WASHINGTON - Playing violent video games like Doom, Wolfenstein 3D or Mortal Kombat can increase a person's aggressive thoughts, feelings and behavior both in laboratory settings and in actual life, according to two studies appearing in the April issue of the American Psychological Association's (APA) Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. Furthermore, violent video games may be more harmful than violent television and movies because they are interactive, very engrossing and require the player to identify with the aggressor, say the researchers.
"One study reveals that young men who are habitually aggressive may be especially vulnerable to the aggression-enhancing effects of repeated exposure to violent games," said psychologists Craig A. Anderson, Ph.D., and Karen E. Dill, Ph.D. "The other study reveals that even a brief exposure to violent video games can temporarily increase aggressive behavior in all types of participants."
The first study involved 227 college students who completed a measure of trait aggressiveness and reported their actual aggressive behaviors (delinquency) in the recent past. They also reported their video game playing habits. "We found that students who reported playing more violent video games in junior and high school engaged in more aggressive behavior," said lead author Anderson, of Iowa State University. "We also found that amount of time spent playing video games in the past was associated with lower academic grades in college."
In the second study, 210 college students played either a violent (Wolfenstein 3D) or nonviolent video game (Myst). A short time later, the students who played the violent video game punished an opponent (received a noise blast with varying intensity) for a longer period of time than did students who had played the nonviolent video game.
"Violent video games provide a forum for learning and practicing aggressive solutions to conflict situations," said Dr. Anderson. "In the short run, playing a violent video game appears to affect aggression by priming aggressive thoughts. Longer-term effects are likely to be longer lasting as well, as the player learns and practices new aggression-related scripts that can become more and more accessible for use when real-life conflict situations arise."
"One major concern is the active nature of the learning environment of the video game," say the authors. "This medium is potentially more dangerous than exposure to violent television and movies, which are known to have substantial effects on aggression and violence."
Article: "Video Games and Aggressive Thoughts, Feelings, and Behavior in the Laboratory and in Life," Craig A. Anderson, Ph.D., Iowa State University of Science and Technology and Karen E. Dill, Ph.D., Lenoir-Rhyne College, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Vol. 78, No. 4.
(Full text of the article is available from the APA Public Affairs Office or at http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp784772.pdf)
Reporters: Karen E. Dill, Ph.D., can be reached by telephone at (828) 328-7209
The American Psychological Association (APA), in Washington, DC, is the largest scientific and professional organization representing psychology in the United States and is the world's largest association of psychologists. APA's membership includes more than 159,000 researchers, educators, clinicians, consultants and students. Through its divisions in 53 subfields of psychology and affiliations with 59 state, territorial and Canadian provincial associations, APA works to advance psychology as a science, as a profession and as a means of promoting human welfare.
# # #
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers
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nerdanel
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Uncharacteristically short post for me.sauronsfinger wrote:given the vast amounts of time many young people spend on playing video games, could their time be better spent in more educational, athletic and constructive ways which will improve them as a person and teach them things which will help and aid them in other facets of real life?
I agree strongly with SF on his point, as expressed in his above, highly-rhetorical question. If memory serves, I believe that the same group of participants has had the same discussion on b77, and I won't post again in this thread unless I see different points being made.
yov, thank you for splitting this from the other thread, because I felt that the video-game discussion (which feels repetitive to me) had hijacked the other thread.
I won't just survive
Oh, you will see me thrive
Can't write my story
I'm beyond the archetype
I won't just conform
No matter how you shake my core
'Cause my roots, they run deep, oh
When, when the fire's at my feet again
And the vultures all start circling
They're whispering, "You're out of time,"
But still I rise
This is no mistake, no accident
When you think the final nail is in, think again
Don't be surprised, I will still rise
Oh, you will see me thrive
Can't write my story
I'm beyond the archetype
I won't just conform
No matter how you shake my core
'Cause my roots, they run deep, oh
When, when the fire's at my feet again
And the vultures all start circling
They're whispering, "You're out of time,"
But still I rise
This is no mistake, no accident
When you think the final nail is in, think again
Don't be surprised, I will still rise
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JewelSong
- Just Keep Singin'
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Yes. Harmful in that I believe they can become addictive. And I do not believe that they have any redeeming value - social or educational or spiritual - that would justify the hours and days some young people (mostly boys) spend "playing" them.
I believe that they provide a false reality and a sense that the gamer is accomplishing something, without actually anything being accomplished.
I believe that they actually discourage creativity. Nobody writes poems, stories or songs about video games. They are a self-contained world and cannot be modified except in whatever way the programmer has designed them to be modified.
They can be a pleasant diversion from daily work and endeavors. And playing them can be fun. But when they become the daily work, then I believe they are damaging. And mind-numbing.
ETA: In the other thread...
Alatar wrote:
NO video game that I know of involves reading and writing about what you have read. No video game requires you to learn and then use new vocabulary, or make a solid arguement for your opinion or create dialogue or describe something using rich language.
Most video games, in fact, require almost no reading ability at all. Yet, in order to succeed at almost any job today, you need to be able to read well and write well.
So, yes. A bad book is better for you educationally than a good video game.
I believe that they provide a false reality and a sense that the gamer is accomplishing something, without actually anything being accomplished.
I believe that they actually discourage creativity. Nobody writes poems, stories or songs about video games. They are a self-contained world and cannot be modified except in whatever way the programmer has designed them to be modified.
They can be a pleasant diversion from daily work and endeavors. And playing them can be fun. But when they become the daily work, then I believe they are damaging. And mind-numbing.
ETA: In the other thread...
Alatar wrote:
Ethel wrote:I refuse to believe that any intelligent person can say that reading, for example, Jilly Coopers "Riders" is more educational than playing through the campaign maps of "Rome: Total War". I just won't believe it.
So, Alatar. I am a reasonably intelligent person. And yes, I believe that a BOOK (even a pulp novel) enhances academic acheivement and success and a VIDEO GAME (even "Rome: Total War") does not for the very reasons Ethel stated above.video games involve a very different type of cognitive activity from reading and other academic pursuits. People who read well - quickly and with good comprehension - nearly always do well in school. They also tend to write well, spell correctly, and have good vocabularies. The very act of reading enhances all of those abilities, and this is true even of "bad" books. Playing a video game doesn't.
NO video game that I know of involves reading and writing about what you have read. No video game requires you to learn and then use new vocabulary, or make a solid arguement for your opinion or create dialogue or describe something using rich language.
Most video games, in fact, require almost no reading ability at all. Yet, in order to succeed at almost any job today, you need to be able to read well and write well.
So, yes. A bad book is better for you educationally than a good video game.
"Live! Live! Live! Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!" - Auntie Mame
Damn. Should I ask that question about everything I do? Surely your time could be better spent in more educational, athletic and constructive ways then posting on an internet messageboard, no?given the vast amounts of time many young people spend on playing video games, could their time be better spent in more educational, athletic and constructive ways which will improve them as a person and teach them things which will help and aid them in other facets of real life?
Surprise, surprise, it looks the same way from here. (ie. people who hate and don't understand video games arguing that they're bad and harmful).sf wrote: It is a bit amusing that some here are reacting here as if we are trying to take away their favorite toys. Seems more of a personal reaction than an intellectual one.
Wrong.Nobody writes poems, stories or songs about video games.
Wrong again.They are a self-contained world and cannot be modified except in whatever way the programmer has designed them to be modified.
(There are huge communities devoted to modifying and extended existing games, the video game equivalent of fan fiction. As someone who once dreamed of getting into video game making, I'll tell you that doing this succesfully is a highly creative endeavor)I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
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sauronsfinger
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yovargas
obviously, you have studied this matter far deeply and in far more detail than the members of the American Psychological Association have done. And your superior education and credentials in the field render their professional opinion into worthless dust.
As has been said here before by others.... video games do a gret job at preparing you for ........... playing more video games.
And yes yovargas, the question of a valuable use of a limited resource such as time, expecially at a critical juncture of life such as youth, is a very important question.
And only child molesters understand the temptations they face.
You can say that about any subculture which indoctrinates the true believers and excludes all others.
So I guess by your comment yovargas, you are only interested in the opinions of people likle yourself who love the games and play them? Others need not bother to foist their ignorance on the converted.
obviously, you have studied this matter far deeply and in far more detail than the members of the American Psychological Association have done. And your superior education and credentials in the field render their professional opinion into worthless dust.
As has been said here before by others.... video games do a gret job at preparing you for ........... playing more video games.
And yes yovargas, the question of a valuable use of a limited resource such as time, expecially at a critical juncture of life such as youth, is a very important question.
And only drug addicts truly undestand the allure of their addiction.Surprise, surprise, it looks the same way from here. (ie. people who hate and don't understand video games arguing that they're bad and harmful).
And only child molesters understand the temptations they face.
You can say that about any subculture which indoctrinates the true believers and excludes all others.
So I guess by your comment yovargas, you are only interested in the opinions of people likle yourself who love the games and play them? Others need not bother to foist their ignorance on the converted.
Last edited by sauronsfinger on Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers
Just so I know what we're talking about -
Are we arguing whether it's harmful to spend hours and hours playing video games every day?
Are we arguing whether it's harmful to spend an hour once or twice a week playing them?
Are we arguing whether it's harmful to play them - period?
I can't respond until I know the answer to this question.
Are we arguing whether it's harmful to spend hours and hours playing video games every day?
Are we arguing whether it's harmful to spend an hour once or twice a week playing them?
Are we arguing whether it's harmful to play them - period?
I can't respond until I know the answer to this question.
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Voronwë the Faithful
- At the intersection of here and now
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This has the potential to be a very good thread. But watch the condescending tones. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with each other, even strongly, but do it respectfully (or do it some place else).
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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sauronsfinger
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To dismiss the serious findings of a group like the APA because they may not have kept up with the latest quirk of the deepest inner circles of the gaming community is not the wisest move anyone could make.
Please read the post I made repeating what they found in several studies of gaming. I found it quite disturbing.
I admit that I do not play these games. Never have and probably see no reason why I would in the future. My concern is from a teacher of 33 years and what negative impact they have upon the young who could spend their limited time and resources in vastly better ways which could build their bodies and minds.
I have no problem with anyone who spends a little bit of time playing games that they enjoy as long as they are not harmful.
If participation in this thread is going to be limited to those who are gamers, then I will sit upon the sidelines --- or read a book ... or engage in some exercise....
Please read the post I made repeating what they found in several studies of gaming. I found it quite disturbing.
I admit that I do not play these games. Never have and probably see no reason why I would in the future. My concern is from a teacher of 33 years and what negative impact they have upon the young who could spend their limited time and resources in vastly better ways which could build their bodies and minds.
I have no problem with anyone who spends a little bit of time playing games that they enjoy as long as they are not harmful.
If participation in this thread is going to be limited to those who are gamers, then I will sit upon the sidelines --- or read a book ... or engage in some exercise....
Last edited by sauronsfinger on Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers
I had a brilliant post all written and lost it. Lost the brilliance with it!
I think many boys spend far too much time playing video games. I am not talking about grown MEN who get into complicated alternate worlds. I'm talking about 10, 11, 12 year old boys who are allowed to play for hours and hours every day. Who watch TV for hours and hours every day. It is a kind of masturbation, a "solitary vice" if you will. There is no interaction, no socializing, no intellectual stimulation, no physical activity, just this solitary boy sitting in a half-dark room hour upon hour upon hour getting to be very good at playing video games. And he's solitary even if there are other people there!
I don't believe all these boys are going to grow up to be violent sex offenders or mass murderers. I think they will grow up to be exactly the kind of young men who seem so common now: can't read worth beans, can't express the simplest thought/idea in writing or even verbally, can't endure five minutes of silence or contemplation. For the luvva pete, even their bloody PHONES have to do more than just let them phone someone! Loud noises! Flashing lights!!! Speed!!!!
The poor creatures. What if there was a worldwide power failure and they had to actually experience the world as it is, not through a filter of artificial excitement?
It isn't the kid who plays for a couple of hours a week that's got me worried, it's the huge number who play for a couple of hours every day, or longer. And there are LOTS of them.
I think many boys spend far too much time playing video games. I am not talking about grown MEN who get into complicated alternate worlds. I'm talking about 10, 11, 12 year old boys who are allowed to play for hours and hours every day. Who watch TV for hours and hours every day. It is a kind of masturbation, a "solitary vice" if you will. There is no interaction, no socializing, no intellectual stimulation, no physical activity, just this solitary boy sitting in a half-dark room hour upon hour upon hour getting to be very good at playing video games. And he's solitary even if there are other people there!
I don't believe all these boys are going to grow up to be violent sex offenders or mass murderers. I think they will grow up to be exactly the kind of young men who seem so common now: can't read worth beans, can't express the simplest thought/idea in writing or even verbally, can't endure five minutes of silence or contemplation. For the luvva pete, even their bloody PHONES have to do more than just let them phone someone! Loud noises! Flashing lights!!! Speed!!!!
The poor creatures. What if there was a worldwide power failure and they had to actually experience the world as it is, not through a filter of artificial excitement?
It isn't the kid who plays for a couple of hours a week that's got me worried, it's the huge number who play for a couple of hours every day, or longer. And there are LOTS of them.
Dig deeper.
There is a difference between "enhancing academic achievement" and "education". Jilly Coopers novels may teach the reader some interesting sexual positions and that the best way to attract women is to treat them like dirt, but Rome: Total War will teach the gamer about the districts and political factions in Ancient Rome, plus their relevant strengths and weaknesses in economy, agriculture, military might and political leverage. Which of these is more educational? Note. I'm asking about education, not academic achievement.JewelSong wrote:
Alatar wrote:Ethel wrote:I refuse to believe that any intelligent person can say that reading, for example, Jilly Coopers "Riders" is more educational than playing through the campaign maps of "Rome: Total War". I just won't believe it.So, Alatar. I am a reasonably intelligent person. And yes, I believe that a BOOK (even a pulp novel) enhances academic acheivement and success and a VIDEO GAME (even "Rome: Total War") does not for the very reasons Ethel stated above.video games involve a very different type of cognitive activity from reading and other academic pursuits. People who read well - quickly and with good comprehension - nearly always do well in school. They also tend to write well, spell correctly, and have good vocabularies. The very act of reading enhances all of those abilities, and this is true even of "bad" books. Playing a video game doesn't.
NO video game that I know of involves reading and writing about what you have read. No video game requires you to learn and then use new vocabulary, or make a solid arguement for your opinion or create dialogue or describe something using rich language.
Most video games, in fact, require almost no reading ability at all. Yet, in order to succeed at almost any job today, you need to be able to read well and write well.
So, yes. A bad book is better for you educationally than a good video game.
Again, I'm not here to defend the likes of Manhunt and GTA, but to dismiss the large body of thoughtful intelligent gaming work by simply concentrating on GTA is equivalent to trashing Tolkien because of Terry Brooks. (Sorry to any Shannara fans
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sauronsfinger
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Alatar
serious question that I cannot seem to google.... I just get lots of ads and non-useful information.
What would be the top ten video games sold by age category? Do you know where I can find this information? thanks.
serious question that I cannot seem to google.... I just get lots of ads and non-useful information.
What would be the top ten video games sold by age category? Do you know where I can find this information? thanks.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers
I'm really not sure SF. I don't think they tend to be categorised in that fashion. However, to hazard a guess I would be fairly confident that many of the most popular games for young teenagers are violent. However, probably the most popular games of all time are the various Sports simulations and the hugely popular "Sims" series.
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sauronsfinger
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I did find this
Star Wars in 2005 Best Sellers List
Posted By Mark on January 15, 2006
Star Wars features heavily in the US best sellers list for 2005, according to The NPD Group. The top 10 sellers for the year includes three Star Wars titles alone (not including PC):
1. Madden NFL 2006 (PS2)
2. Pokemon Emerald (GBA)
3. Gran Turismo 4 (PS2)
4. Madden NFL 2006 (Xbox)
5. NCAA Football 06 (PS2)
6. Star Wars: Battlefront II (PS2)
7. MVP Baseball 2005 (PS2)
8. Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (PS2)
9. NBA Live 06 (PS2)
10. LEGO Star Wars: The Video Game (PS2)
My point is this. I agree that there are some excellent video games that can teach you about history, urban planning, and other things. I just wonder if those are the games that the kids are playing on their own?
The above list seem heavy on sports and fantasy. I see nothing on it reflecting the more skill buildng or educational games.
There has to be some industry info about this. I suspect that the games embraced by 8 to 12 year olds are different than 13 to 16 or 20 to 30 or even older. I would not be surpirsed to see some sharing across the board - say the sports games for example --- but I would love to see an age breakdown if anyone knows how to access this.
The idea of a 30 year old stockbroker playing GRAND THEFT AUTO until the wee hours of the night is not really a concern of mine as much as the 14 year old for obvious reasons.
Star Wars in 2005 Best Sellers List
Posted By Mark on January 15, 2006
Star Wars features heavily in the US best sellers list for 2005, according to The NPD Group. The top 10 sellers for the year includes three Star Wars titles alone (not including PC):
1. Madden NFL 2006 (PS2)
2. Pokemon Emerald (GBA)
3. Gran Turismo 4 (PS2)
4. Madden NFL 2006 (Xbox)
5. NCAA Football 06 (PS2)
6. Star Wars: Battlefront II (PS2)
7. MVP Baseball 2005 (PS2)
8. Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (PS2)
9. NBA Live 06 (PS2)
10. LEGO Star Wars: The Video Game (PS2)
My point is this. I agree that there are some excellent video games that can teach you about history, urban planning, and other things. I just wonder if those are the games that the kids are playing on their own?
The above list seem heavy on sports and fantasy. I see nothing on it reflecting the more skill buildng or educational games.
There has to be some industry info about this. I suspect that the games embraced by 8 to 12 year olds are different than 13 to 16 or 20 to 30 or even older. I would not be surpirsed to see some sharing across the board - say the sports games for example --- but I would love to see an age breakdown if anyone knows how to access this.
The idea of a 30 year old stockbroker playing GRAND THEFT AUTO until the wee hours of the night is not really a concern of mine as much as the 14 year old for obvious reasons.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers
My little boys love "Harvest Moon", which they have in 2 versions for their Gameboys. They also play "The Sims". Both are interesting games and Harvest Moon, particularly, involves a great deal of decision making. It is a game about farming, of all things.
However, they are NOT allowed to play for hours and hours every day. The odd time they have, they are wild-eyed and overstimulated, can't fall asleep, and seem to suffer some kind of nervous hangover. I'm not imagining this, believe me. Between Christmas and New Year our weather was rotten and I was ill, so they had to more or less fend for themselves during the day and even they thought it was too much TV and vids.
These games may not be Spawn of Satan, but anyone who thinks they don't have a deleterious effect on kids is kidding themselves.
The worst thing the games do is reinforce the need for constant excitement. I think TV and video games also do a lot to CREATE this need.
yovargas, if you had a 14 year old son, what limits, if any, would you place on either the kinds of game he played, or the time he spent playing, and why? Same to you, Alatar.
However, they are NOT allowed to play for hours and hours every day. The odd time they have, they are wild-eyed and overstimulated, can't fall asleep, and seem to suffer some kind of nervous hangover. I'm not imagining this, believe me. Between Christmas and New Year our weather was rotten and I was ill, so they had to more or less fend for themselves during the day and even they thought it was too much TV and vids.
These games may not be Spawn of Satan, but anyone who thinks they don't have a deleterious effect on kids is kidding themselves.
The worst thing the games do is reinforce the need for constant excitement. I think TV and video games also do a lot to CREATE this need.
yovargas, if you had a 14 year old son, what limits, if any, would you place on either the kinds of game he played, or the time he spent playing, and why? Same to you, Alatar.
Dig deeper.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Well, nobody directly answered my questions, so I still don't know exactly what the debate is. But I'll jump in anyway
Someone asked if time spent playing video games would be better spent doing something else.
Undoubtedly. But does everyone only do beneficial things? All day long? Nothing but?
vison's example shows the effects of excessive use of these games. I would agree that that would not be beneficial.
I believe in being balanced - some activities are just performed for the sake of enjoying them; for "recreation of the soul". Not for self-improvement. And I believe it's important to have something you enjoy doing just for the sake of enjoying.
If you believe that it's harmful to spend hours and hours every day playing them, you'll get no argument from me!
Sorry, this is as coherent as I get this late at night. I'll try to do better tomorrow.
Someone asked if time spent playing video games would be better spent doing something else.
Undoubtedly. But does everyone only do beneficial things? All day long? Nothing but?
vison's example shows the effects of excessive use of these games. I would agree that that would not be beneficial.
I believe in being balanced - some activities are just performed for the sake of enjoying them; for "recreation of the soul". Not for self-improvement. And I believe it's important to have something you enjoy doing just for the sake of enjoying.
If you believe that it's harmful to spend hours and hours every day playing them, you'll get no argument from me!
Sorry, this is as coherent as I get this late at night. I'll try to do better tomorrow.
Last edited by Jude on Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sauronsfinger
- Posts: 3508
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:25 am
Jude... I do agree with much of what you say. Probably where it hits the fan is defining the amounts of time that are acceptable to spend on purely entertaining and unbeneficial things. What has happened in the last few decades is that the balance between beneficial activity and selfish indulgence has gone right out the window for many.
Allow me to use my family as an example. I was born in 1949 and grew up in the fifties and sixties. Until I was 17 and had my own money, the only time my family ever ate at a restaurant was on the occassional Friday for Knights of Columbus fish fry or the rare fast food on Saturday afternoon for lunch. That was it. Nobody in family of six had a weight problem or any health problems. We had too much good home cooking of healthy foods to be otherwise. Today, one out of every four meals is eaten outside the home with McDonalds the big winner. Fat city.
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Allow me to use my family as an example. I was born in 1949 and grew up in the fifties and sixties. Until I was 17 and had my own money, the only time my family ever ate at a restaurant was on the occassional Friday for Knights of Columbus fish fry or the rare fast food on Saturday afternoon for lunch. That was it. Nobody in family of six had a weight problem or any health problems. We had too much good home cooking of healthy foods to be otherwise. Today, one out of every four meals is eaten outside the home with McDonalds the big winner. Fat city.
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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers