The Obama Phenomenon and the 2008 Presidential Campaign

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

Vison, it was Jonathan Swift of Gulliver fame not the good and humane Dr Johnson. I know you care about such things.

Your anecdotal proof is ok then soli but not anyone's who contradicts your ideological opinion that anything to do with the state is malevolent. My higher (perhaps) taxes pay for the poorest in the land to get the most expensive treatment they need be they wastrels, criminals or immigrants who have not paid in to the system. I am perfectly happy with that. You see, you hear about our system through your political filters wherever they are. Our system isn't perfect and we spend a lot of time grumbling about it and trying to get it better but that's because we own it, commie dupes as we are.

[solicitr]

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, followed always by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”
– Alexander Fraser Tytler, Lord Woodhouselee, 1797

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...but that's because we own it....

No, you don't own it. The State owns it. If you've bought into the platitude that 'Government = the people' then you've been sold a bill of goods.


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My higher (perhaps) taxes pay for the poorest in the land to get the most expensive treatment they need be they wastrels, criminals or immigrants who have not paid in to the system. I am perfectly happy with that.

Judging by the recent election, large numbers of your countrymen are not perfectly happy with it.

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

You are welcome to re-introduce government by our monarchy and landed aristocracy if you wish soli.

[solicitr]

You are welcome to re-introduce government by our monarchy and landed aristocracy if you wish soli.

I'm afraid that by this late date your monarchy has been castrated and your landed aristocracy euthanised. I fear I have no interest in borrowing Gordon Brown.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'm going to split off the discussion of health care. Please don't make any responses that relate both to that issue and the election while the split is in process.

Edit: I see yov has started a new thread, which complicates things. I guess I'll leave this one alone, and just "encourage" people to take the discussion of health care to the new thread, without moving the posts.

[Primula Baggins]

Most people don't get bonuses of any kind, so that motivational source isn't available except to execs—who seem to get bonuses no matter how things are going.

Oh come on, Prim. I would think you would know better than this sort of 'people vs. the moneybags' rhetoric. Susan is a middle manager and her compensation package is not remotely unusual.

You're reading something into my post that isn't there, soli. I was just noting a fact. My husband is a middle manager and also gets bonuses (though they don't seem to be related to any factor he can figure out ). However, we have friends at the same level of employment who don't get so much as a free turkey at Christmas and haven't for years. It's hardly cause for aghast armwaving, even from someone like me, but it is a fact.

[Frelga]

How bizarre! Which planet are you on Soli?

One where not buying a Mercedes every month is a proof of fiscal prudence and an example to those who can't afford weekly groceries.

A cheap shot, Frelga, but increasingly common from the Left.

It was a direct quote from your post, one I found very memorable because it really illuminated your perspective. And if I'm the Left...

[Primula Baggins]

Oh, c'mon, we all know how dangerous you are, Frelga.

[solicitr]

Which post of mine? (the forum software's search function is pretty useless for long threads)

[axordil]

Yeah, IBM is certainly a rogue company.

No, but certainly heavily bureaucratized and hidebound- which is (in part) why outfits like Microsoft and HP have beaten up on it so.

HP would kill to be us right now. Mind you, I'm an IBMer by purchase, not choice, but we've actually been doing very well since the dark days of the early '90s.

If you want to talk hidebound, then you DO want to talk insurance. Insurance companies routinely lag ten years behind others in adopting technology, for example. Only things like HIPAA goose them forward.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Which post of mine? (the forum software's search function is pretty useless for long threads)

The only other post that I could find that you have made here that mentions "mercedes" is this one:

Excuse me, Holby? If one wants to compare the cost to the nation, then the proportion of national wealth expended is the only rational measure. For a family on the poverty line, a Camry is far more expensive than a Mercedes is for a millionaire.

viewtopic.php?p=108808#108808

That hardly seems the same as what Frelga said.

[Primula Baggins]

The Obama campaign is going to announce a "major endorsement" at 7 PM (I presume Eastern, or in about 3 1/2 hours). Early betting seems to be on Edwards. Now, the campaign has done this before and then announced a couple of minor superdelegates.

However, when asked if it's Edwards, campaign officials are not answering at all.

[Jnyusa]

It's likely Edwards. His 19 delegates have been sitting there since he pulled out, keeping their mouths shut.

[Frelga]

Which post of mine? (the forum software's search function is pretty useless for long threads)

The only other post that I could find that you have made here that mentions "mercedes" is this one:

Excuse me, Holby? If one wants to compare the cost to the nation, then the proportion of national wealth expended is the only rational measure. For a family on the poverty line, a Camry is far more expensive than a Mercedes is for a millionaire.

viewtopic.php?p=108808#108808

That hardly seems the same as what Frelga said.

Not that one, but thanks for looking, V. I'll find it when I get home.

[Primula Baggins]

Edwards is indeed endorsing Obama in a couple of hours, according to ABC News.

[Cerin]

I saw him recently on one of the shows, and he said some very positive things about Clinton while opining that it was no longer possible for her to win the nomination. I hope he will use the same approach here. A well-crafted speech focusing on healing might serve to trigger the beginnings of a rapprochement between the camps.

[Primula Baggins]

I hope so, Cerin.

Edwards was the candidate I supported first, so I'm glad about this. He has some good ideas, and I'd hope to see him with some role in an Obama administration, if it happens.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Cerin, I would be shocked if Edwards did not make a point of praising Clinton, as he should.

Frelga, I'll look forward to seeing what post you actually meant, if you can find it.

[kams]

Edwards is indeed endorsing Obama in a couple of hours, according to ABC News.

Sheesh, the pre-news about it IS the news. The poor guy doesn't have anything to say now. (Why is that always the case nowadays?)

[Primula Baggins]

Well, I've got CNN up in another window and I'm listening. Obama just started talking—apologizing to Michigan because he didn't campaign there and saying, "So I decided that I would try to give you something special."

And here comes Edwards.

Edit: So Edwards spoke, then Obama spoke—and to play them off after the speech? "Signed, Sealed, and Delivered." ("Oo babe, here I am, signed, sealed, delivered, I'm yours!").