The 2008 Presidential Campaign: What Happened and Why?

[Primula Baggins]

She checked out of the hospital into hospice care, apparently, so it seems likely that death is imminent.

[halplm]

As for the issues being discussed about Obama and the Law review, I would request nel, as our resident Harvard expert to correct me if I'm wrong, but this is my understanding.

To be appointed to the Harvard law review, as an editor, there are two ways... for a long time, the only way was to be appointed by one's grades. The first Black editor was in 1937 in this respect. More recently, and the way Obama was appointed, was to submit a writing sample, and be selected. I don't know if this was anonymous or not, as Nel has said tests were conducted, but it doesn't sound that way. Once in the Law review, the President was selected by a popular vote among those apointed. From what i've heard (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), Obama accomplished this by gaining support from the minority consrervative members, by promising them an equal voice. I have no idea if this was accomplished or not.

Here's my point. One of Obama's primary achievements in life, to show how great he is, and how worthy for the office of president of the United states, is that he was the President of the Harvard Law Review. Granted, that's an accomplishment, and it takes a great deal of smarts to get there... But the east coast liberal elite, places a premium on this post that is hardly as high as some would make it.

To play devil's advocit, Obama could get into Harvard Law with some well placed political endorsements. A letter of recommendation here, a quid pro quo there... who knows. Then, after a good maybe great maybe average first year, he could submit a written submission (ie an essay) and get appointed to the law review. I would again ask Nel to refute me, but this is what I've heard elsewhere. Then, after being appointed to the Law review, he is elected president (the first black man, a glorious achievement) of the law review, by gaining the respect (or simply the votes) of his peers.

Why does this matter? Well, the concept of a graduate of Harvard has been eleveated to the intellectual elite. And furthermore, the Law Review has been elevated to the best Lawyers of the country. And even MOREso, the President of the Law review has been promoted as the highest of the high... arguably one of the smartest people in the country.

But on the other hand... he could be placed there by affimative action, a decent first year, a good essay, and a popularity contest.

The position is worthy of respect, there's no doubt about that. But it seems clear that Obama used it as a notch on his belt towards a political career. He had no interest in becoming the type of lawyer that such a prestigious position gave him the opportunity for. As I understand it, a Supreme Court internship is the traditional next step for such a position for his success... but he never even tried. A position at a prestegious law firm might be next, but he moved on in his comunity organizer role, with his radical liberal friends.

Is this relevant to anyone who posts here? Probably not. However, it blows my mind that people would elevate Obama to an intellectual level that could be achieved by connections and careful consideration of one's image.

Simply saying he's a genius because he was the President of the Harvard Law review is beyond naive. If he had done more in that position, or if he had done anything signifigant as a law student or lawyer, then maybe there would be more to talk about... but he did nothing.

And his community organizer experience was before he even went to Law school.

Seems he has been a lifelong politician, without actually accomplishing anything.

Some people question how I can have such an opinioin of Obama when I like Palin... the difference is simple. Obama has done everything for advancement in political arenas.... Palin has done everything to help her community and constituents... There is no evidence anywhere that Obama has even cared about anything but the next run on the political ladder.

He has said a lot of great stuff. If there was any evidence whatsoever that he has or would govern with respect to those great ideas, I would have a much more admirable opinion of him. Alas, he says things now, without any evidence of doing those things in the past.

[Alatar]

Britons who hated Britain:
Cromwell, Milton, Bunyan, Penn, Blake, Wilberforce, Byron, Shelley, Dickens, Pankhurst, Lawrence, Orwell, countless trade unionists, reformers, journalists and preachers.

God bless'em.

You might want to rethink extolling the virtues of Cromwell when there's an Irishman present.

Just sayin'

[sauronsfinger]

from Hal

To play devil's advocit, Obama could get into Harvard Law with some well placed political endorsements. A letter of recommendation here, a quid pro quo there... who knows.

Who knows? Who knows? Obviously you do not know or you would give us some answers and facts to go with all of your repeated questions, imaginary scenarios and outright wild speculation. I have read the many posts you made on this subject and you offer no facts to spur any discussion. You have offered no proof of any wrongdoing. You have offered no support for your wild speculation.

What purpose is being served by all of this?

When people brought out all the factual information about Sarah Palin, you wrote over and over that we were just trying to hurt her. How is this any different motivation on your part? The one difference I can see is the Palin discussion was centered around facts and history supported by facts. All you are doing is raising questions with no supporting evidence of facts behind all this wild speculation.

All day today, starting with the many posts you made about suspected illegal donations to the Obama campaign, all we have seen is one speculative post after another asking all kinds of question but without any factual evidence to support anything.

Attacking Senator Obama's record is perfectly fine and acceptable but lets please do it on a factual basis. If you can bring information showing faults with Obama or his policies, that is well and good and we can discuss it.

[Túrin Turambar]

Britons who hated Britain:
Cromwell, Milton, Bunyan, Penn, Blake, Wilberforce, Byron, Shelley, Dickens, Pankhurst, Lawrence, Orwell, countless trade unionists, reformers, journalists and preachers.

God bless'em.

You might want to rethink extolling the virtues of Cromwell when there's an Irishman present.

Just sayin'

What virtues?

[Dave_LF]

In its new cherry-picking tradition, Drudge is now posting that the Nickelodeon kids' poll has Obama up by only 2%. I love the smell of desperation in the morning.

[Túrin Turambar]

Some people question how I can have such an opinioin of Obama when I like Palin... the difference is simple. Obama has done everything for advancement in political arenas.... Palin has done everything to help her community and constituents... There is no evidence anywhere that Obama has even cared about anything but the next run on the political ladder.

The only people who can really judge that are their constituents, and both Obama and Palin have been elected and re-elected and then elected again to higher office.

[Alatar]

SF, I'll defend Hal on this. People can have opinions based on logical conclusions. "Prove it or shut up" is not debate.

[sauronsfinger]

Yes Alatar - but wild speculation based on the unsupported ramblings of ones beliefs does not constitute debate either. When does enough become enough? At what point does one have to offer some evidence to support their accusations and suspicions? At what point does "I ACCUSE" become "and here is my case"?
==============================

One of my favorite lines from the movies is from PHILADELPHIA. Denzel Washington says "now explain it to like I am a four year old". So if anyone can here is my problem -----

Sarah Palin and John McCain are going around the country calling Barack Obama a socialist and his tax plan income redistribution and a gift from one group to another group by taking money that some have and giving it to others who need it.

As Governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin increased taxes on oil companies and took in hundreds of millions of dollars in their money. She then sent out checks to the citizens of Alaska with that money. Several payments, each for several thousand dollars have been sent over the last two years.

Is that not income redistribution?

Is that not taking money from those who have it and giving it to those who have less?

If Obama is a socialist for his tax plans, is Sarah Palin no less a socialist for her proven record of income redistribution?

[Maria]

Here's an amusing pic you folks might like to see.

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

Most of the stuff on the picture is clickable and you need audio on to hear it. My McCain supporting husband sent the link to me, so I didn't get it from a liberal blog or anything.

Of course, hy husband's disgust with Palin may turn him to Obama soon. I thought Colin Powell's endorsement might do it, but he hasn't said anything. He looked so disgusted at Sarah Palin's appearance on Saturday Night Live, though, that I think that might be the last nail in the coffin.

May Sarah Palin's future career consist only of many guest appearances on comedy shows.

[Padme]

I picked this up from another website. Pretty big news, if true. Of course, the Obama campaign could adjust and go back into PA to compete.

Most people top in the McCain campaign now believe New Mexico and Iowa are gone, that Barack Obama will win New Mexico and Iowa. They are now off the dream list of the McCain campaign. More interestingly, most top people inside the McCain campaign think Colorado is gone.

So they are now finishing with a very risky strategy. Win Florida. Win Nevada ... And here is the biggest risk of all -- yes they have to win North Carolina, yes they have to win Ohio, yes they have to win Virginia, trailing or dead-even in all those states right now. But they are betting Wolf on coming back and taking the state of Pennsylvania. It has become the critical state now in the McCain electoral scenario. And they are down 10, 12, and even 14 points in some polls there. But they say as Colorado, Iowa and other states drift away, they think they have to take a big state. 21 electoral votes in Pennsylvania, Wolf, watch that state over the next few weeks.

dailykos

this expalins why the McCain ads have all but stopped.



Maria,

I saw the Palin thing the other day, look for everything, including the hidden parts of the desk.

[Alatar]

Yes Alatar - but wild speculation based on the unsupported ramblings of ones beliefs does not constitute debate either. When does enough become enough? At what point does one have to offer some evidence to support their accusations and suspicions? At what point does "I ACCUSE" become "and here is my case"?

Well, we see what we want to. Hal has repeatedly and carefully laid out his thinking and logic as to why he believes Obama should release his grades (for instance). He has a point. You may not agree with it, but why do you refuse to even accept that he has one?

[Cerin]

Hal has repeatedly and carefully laid out his thinking and logic as to why he believes Obama should release his grades (for instance).

What I see being repeatedly and carefully laid out are suspicions, frustrations, resentments and rationalizations. hal thinks Obama is a big nothing who has fooled everyone he ever met along the way. Even if Obama released his college transcripts and it were proven that he didn't enter Harvard by merit, so what? He proved himself to be extraordinary once he was in Harvard. And the Presidency of the Law Review wasn't gained on popularity, it was gained on recognition that Obama was unusually open to examining all sides of a question and wasn't bitterly entrenched in ideology as many of the partisans on the Review admit to have been.

Many have judged Obama to be of excellent character and intellect. We get that you don't agree, hal. We get it.

[Erunáme]

Hal has repeatedly and carefully laid out his thinking and logic as to why he believes Obama should release his grades (for instance). He has a point. You may not agree with it, but why do you refuse to even accept that he has one?

The problem is, this isn't just about Obama's grades. hal then goes on to say Obama hides everything, lies, hasn't accomplished anything and is only looking for political gain. He hasn't backed these assertions up, really, ever and to me stating these things over and over is bordering on being a bit slanderous.

Remember when he defended Sarah Palin over not answering the newspaper question? That it was silly and she just didn't want to? How is the Obama pre-Harvard grades issue any different, especially as we already know Obama graduated Magna cum Laude from Harvard which proves his academic ability. Also, if hal is so concerned with how Obama got into Harvard why is he not equally concerned about McCain who seemingly used his family importance to gain entrance and retain his position in military school?

It all smacks of an unfair double standard to me.

[Cerin]

Well apparently hal believes that if we could just get our hands on those transcripts, the whole Obama house of cards would come tumbling down and everyone would recognize Obama for the fraud he is, because it would prove that all of hal's suspicions are true. But in fact, it would prove nothing, except that Obama obviously did belong in Harvard regardless of whether his college transcripts were or were not an accurate representation of his aptitude.

[Maria]

I'm quite curious about what grades Palin got in the 5 universities she attended before she finally managed to get a degree in Journalism.

I'm also curious about what is contained in McCain's health records.

But I don't need any of that information anymore, so I don't make a big deal of it.


Edit: Padme, click on the critters behind the door, too!

[Cenedril_Gildinaur]

If Obama is a socialist for his tax plans, is Sarah Palin no less a socialist for her proven record of income redistribution?

Yes, you are absolutely right. Both of them believe in income redistribution. Both of them believe in the benevolent power of government. Both of them believe that it is right for the government to take from one group and give to another. Both of them beleive in the nanny state. Both of them.

The McCain campaign, just as much as the Obama campaign, believes in the power of government to accomplish good things in the country. Neither campaign has any sort of "laissez faire" attitude about economic matters, or civil matter for that matter.

Yes, both of them.

I'm quite impressed.

[Ellienor]

Even if Obama's grades at Columbia weren't that great, there's still the LSAT (the aptitude exam for law school). Law schools tend to consider this very highly since, face it, a 3.7 from college A may mean something much different than a 3.7 from college B.

I got into my law school, which had an average 3.7 entering GPA, with a 3.2. But my LSATs were stellar, so they took a chance on me. I graduated top 10%, so obviously I was qualified even though my grades were a little low. This was all due to my first year undergrad where it was my first year away from catholic school and overbearing parents and I had just a wee bit too much fun. Hard to make up for a couple of Cs

Knowing the LSAT, I can only imagine how seriously Obama smoked it.

And I saw affirmative action. We had some folks at the law school who didn't get there entirely on merit, and for the most part the affirmative action people got the lower grades. But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be there and I am glad they got a chance. We had several native Americans from Colorado and New Mexico tribes, some single moms, and I think it is important to open up opportunities for them.

[Cenedril_Gildinaur]

A 3.6 and 161 was good enough to get me into Southwestern and Loyola but not UCLA.

[Ellienor]

I felt embarrassed about getting in on my LSATs because I had taken a prep course and worked REALLY hard at excelling on the test before I took it. But then over the course of time at school I come to find out that everybody takes a prep course for it. And it wasn't the kind of stellar score that gets one into Harvard Law, either. It was good enough for a top-25 school, but not top-5.

CG, interesting to see you turn on Palin. You had originally liked what you perceived as her fiscal policies, didn't you? Has her record turned out to be different than what you thought?