Voting concerns for the upcoming election

Discussions of and about the historic 2008 U.S. Presidential Election
Locked
User avatar
Cerin
Posts: 6384
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:10 am

Post by Cerin »

link

I was heartened to see that CBS news did a piece on the problem with 'voter purges' (arbitrary 'updating' of voter lists). I wonder if this will show up on an evening news broadcast.


Here is a link to the article from the Brennan Center for Justice that the CBS piece refers to:

link
Far too frequently, however, eligible, registered citizens show up to vote and discover their names have been removed from the voter lists. States maintain voter rolls in an inconsistent and unaccountable manner. Officials strike voters from the rolls through a process that is shrouded in secrecy, prone to error, and vulnerable to manipulation.
Avatar photo by Richard Lykes, used with permission.
User avatar
Dave_LF
Wrong within normal parameters
Posts: 6804
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:59 am
Location: The other side of Michigan

Post by Dave_LF »

Forget deliberate interference; frankly, I'm starting to wonder if all 50 states are going to have the wherewithal to coordinate something like a statewide election by November 4th.
User avatar
River
bioalchemist
Posts: 13431
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:08 am
Location: the dry land

Post by River »

Cerin, that might be why I found this in my in-box last week:
TO: All Students

FROM: University of Colorado Student Union

SENDER: <name>@colorado.edu

DATE: 10/3/08

SUBJECT: IMPORTANT--CHECK YOUR VOTER STATUS!

Attention all students who have recently registered to vote or re-registered a new address! Due to a vague and obscure Colorado law, many people are being dropped from the rolls of registered voters. It is very important that you check your voter registration status by following this link.
<snip>
I haven't changed my address in five years so I figured I'd be okay but I checked anyway. Turns out, I was fine.
When you can do nothing what can you do?
User avatar
Cerin
Posts: 6384
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:10 am

Post by Cerin »

An in-depth and not very encouraging look at voting problems forecast for Florida, and particularly one county with a history of problems.

link
Avatar photo by Richard Lykes, used with permission.
User avatar
Cerin
Posts: 6384
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:10 am

Post by Cerin »

link

Here's a NYT article about the problem of voter purging. It sounds like this is going to be a debacle on election day. The numbers of voters involved is significant enough to affect the outcome of the election.

It seems much of the problem has stemmed from the 'Help America Vote' Act of 2002, and the ad hoc way states have gone about complying. It sounds as though there could potentially be millions of voters turned away at the polls.
Avatar photo by Richard Lykes, used with permission.
User avatar
Primula Baggins
Living in hope
Posts: 40005
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
Contact:

Post by Primula Baggins »

The Obama campaign has been pretty assertive about reminding people to check their registration status, providing an online tool for doing that. They're also urging people to vote early, which means mix-ups have time to be straightened out. I'm sure the McCain campaign is doing both as well.

The one thing that reassured me about the NYT report is that this does not seem to be any kind of partisan conspiracy, but just general chaos and confusion.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
ToshoftheWuffingas
Posts: 1579
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:34 pm

Post by ToshoftheWuffingas »

The one thing that reassured me about the NYT report is that this does not seem to be any kind of partisan conspiracy, but just general chaos and confusion.



You reckon?
<a><img></a>
User avatar
Alatar
of Vinyamar
Posts: 10596
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:39 pm
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Post by Alatar »

The BBC had a special on this the other night

It was much more damning and suggested deliberate tactics on both sides.
Image
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
ToshoftheWuffingas
Posts: 1579
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:34 pm

Post by ToshoftheWuffingas »

Here it is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7658182.stm

It's a TV report.

I watched it the other night and it looked pretty one sided to me.
<a><img></a>
User avatar
Cerin
Posts: 6384
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:10 am

Post by Cerin »

Here's an update on Michigan's readiness to confront voter suppression and intimidation:

link
Avatar photo by Richard Lykes, used with permission.
User avatar
Dave_LF
Wrong within normal parameters
Posts: 6804
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:59 am
Location: The other side of Michigan

Post by Dave_LF »

It sounds like the biggest danger (well; a big danger) is that people who incorrectly believe they'll be turned away won't even show up.
User avatar
Maria
Hobbit
Posts: 8254
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:45 pm
Location: Missouri

Post by Maria »

Wouldn't it be weird if the UN sent in election observers to make sure our election was fair?
User avatar
Dave_LF
Wrong within normal parameters
Posts: 6804
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:59 am
Location: The other side of Michigan

Post by Dave_LF »

After the Florida and Diebold fiascoes, and given that we still don't have paper trails in many cases, who would blame them?
Faramond
Posts: 2335
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:59 am

Post by Faramond »

How can you have a thread about voting concerns in which ACORN is never mentioned?

Perhaps the thread title should be changed to something more descriptive of what is conveniently left out of this thread.
User avatar
Primula Baggins
Living in hope
Posts: 40005
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
Contact:

Post by Primula Baggins »

The voter registration problems with ACORN have certainly been discussed in this forum, I believe in the election thread. It wouldn't have occurred to me to post about them here, because as I understand them they don't constitute fraudulent voting or vote suppression.

If my understanding is incorrect, could you link to better information? Thanks.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
User avatar
Frelga
Meanwhile...
Posts: 22479
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:31 pm
Location: Home, where else

Post by Frelga »

I recall a discussion of ACORN somewhere, not sure which thread.

Incidentally, I saw a few links on Twitter mentioning McCain's ties to ACORN but didn't have the time to see what that was about.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
User avatar
anthriel
halo optional
Posts: 7875
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:26 pm

Post by anthriel »

Primula Baggins wrote:The voter registration problems with ACORN have certainly been discussed in this forum, I believe in the election thread. It wouldn't have occurred to me to post about them here, because as I understand them they don't constitute fraudulent voting or vote suppression.

If my understanding is incorrect, could you link to better information? Thanks.
How can "voter registration problems" not be considered fradulent voting? One man who was interviewed said that he had registered 72 times, all with the help of ACORN volunteers.

I don't think that Obama (or McCain) were directly responsible for the actions of this group, but it is a very left-leaning liberal group with apparently deceptive practices that would fradulently pad the voter registrations. I think that's a problem.



A Google search of "ACORN voter fraud" turned up 520K hits. Here's one:

<<here>>


Here's another from November 2006. Apparently this is not a new concern with ACORN.

<<here>>
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Mrs.Underhill
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:45 am
Location: Boston, USA
Contact:

Post by Mrs.Underhill »

Maria wrote:Wouldn't it be weird if the UN sent in election observers to make sure our election was fair?
I think it's really weird that it hasn't happened yet. After 2000 US doesn't have much authority in lecturing other countries on fair election - IMHO. There should be no way an eligible voter is denied a vote - which is much more widespread case than an uneligible voter casting a vote, from what I understand. And is there an easier way to do it than vote on personal ID which we all already have - SSN, which can be checked via national database for eligibility, and flagged if the vote has already occured, to prevent fraud.
In our electronic age to still use clumsy and unreliable registration process - it's incomprehensible to me.

I think, a major overhaul of US voting system is imminent, as US, being the oldest big-country democracy in the world, has some really outdated practices. Doesn't everyone in this country has some form of ID already - either a driver's license or state-issued ID?
We can argue that some poor people don't have driver licenses and don't know how or don't care about getting state-issued ID. Well, maybe ACORN and similar entities could channel their efforts in that direction - organizing getting IDs for those voters? There would be much less possibility for fraud in this case - I'd even say, none.
Faramond
Posts: 2335
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:59 am

Post by Faramond »

Right ... the first candidate to be mentioned as being tied to ACORN is ... McCain! Of course it is. McCain worked with ACORN for years, and his campaign gave them money through a front organization, and he scrubbed his website to remove references to ACORN ... boy is he in deep ... oh wait, that's the other guy. So how exactly is McCain tied to ACORN?

Oh right, because he appeared at an ACORN function two years ago.

Well if that what it takes to be tied, then boy have I got a list of people for you who Obama is tied with!
The voter registration problems with ACORN have certainly been discussed in this forum, I believe in the election thread. It wouldn't have occurred to me to post about them here, because as I understand them they don't constitute fraudulent voting or vote suppression.
So registering people multiple times isn't vote fraud? Is that really your argument?

I wonder if when you guys talk about voter suppression what you really mean are the efforts to prevent ineligible people from voting.
ToshoftheWuffingas
Posts: 1579
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:34 pm

Post by ToshoftheWuffingas »

Faramond, what would be your reaction to systematic attempts to deprive thousands of eligible people from voting? Would you consider it illegal? Prison worthy?
<a><img></a>
Locked