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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:51 pm 
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TIME magazine reveals a few things about Mrs. Palin's "Alaskanomics".

halplm, before you start calling this "lies" and "hate", read it, and remember these figures are a matter of public record.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:56 pm 
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You are incorrect, both on payments for lodging, and the amount she got for her per diem allowance, which was around $16,000.

You can make the text as big as you want, that doesn't make it true.

I would put forth the theory that you're misreading things because you want her to have done something wrong, but I wouldnt want to insult you in such a fashion.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:04 pm 
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vison wrote:
TIME magazine reveals a few things about Mrs. Palin's "Alaskanomics".

halplm, before you start calling this "lies" and "hate", read it, and remember these figures are a matter of public record.


What figures? That article is so blatantly partisan it's silly.

Figures besed on "per person" or "per capita" are useless when you talk about alaska, and are only used to inflate figures.

That's called distortion.

None of the numbers in that article have any meaning, because the details about what they mean are not presented, and so everything is out of context!

Once again, it is nothing but an article intended to distort any piece of information it can possibly find to try to make Palin look bad. If it's not listed as an editorial, it should be.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:05 pm 
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vison, please refrain from "shouting". It does not help advance the discussion. And I note that neither you nor halplm have provided any links to your competing claims as to how much Palin got for her per diems when she was at her home.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:12 pm 
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NBC NIghtly News had an interesting report from the campaign trail.

John McCain and Sarah Palin were on the stump. John McCain said this
about the executive jet that Sarah Plain inherited as governor of Alaska.

"and she sold it on ebay".

FALSE. No she did not . She sold it through a broker.

"and for a profit."
FALSE AGAIN. They lost money on the sale.

Why would McCain continue to say things that everyone else in the campaign has known for several days now?

Kudos to NBC News for pointing out the false statements by McCain.

I will be happy to provide a link to the actual vidoe of this story when it becomes available later this evening.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:17 pm 
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sauronsfinger wrote:
NBC NIghtly News had an interesting report from the campaign trail.

John McCain and Sarah Palin were on the stump. John McCain said this
about the executive jet that Sarah Plain inherited as governor of Alaska.

"and she sold it on ebay".

FALSE. No she did not . She sold it through a broker.

"and for a profit."
FALSE AGAIN. They lost money on the sale.

Why would McCain continue to say things that everyone else in the campaign has known for several days now?

Kudos to NBC News for pointing out the false statements by McCain.

I will be happy to provide a link to the actual vidoe of this story when it becomes available later this evening.


Why? because he's an idiot.

But it is also silly to make an issue about it, because no one cares where she sold it, and she did put it on ebay, and profit or not, it saved the people of alaska a considerable amount of money.

kudos to NBC Nightly News? LOL, they've been one of the most partisan news organizations ever, and you're giving them kudos? guess I shouldn't be surprised.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:19 pm 
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Regarding the per diem expenses for Sarah Palin. This from todays Washington Post and MSNBC. The garnered this information from state records.

Quote:
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has billed taxpayers for 312 nights spent in her own home during her first 19 months in office, charging a "per diem" allowance intended to cover meals and incidental expenses while traveling on state business.

The governor also has charged the state for travel expenses to take her children on official out-of-town missions. And her husband, Todd, has billed the state for expenses and a daily allowance for trips he makes on official business for his wife.

Palin, who earns $125,000 a year, claimed and received $16,951 as her allowance, which officials say was permitted because her official "duty station" is Juneau, according to an analysis of her travel documents by The Washington Post.

The governor's daughters and husband charged the state $43,490 to travel and many of the trips were to and from their house in Wasilla and Juneau, the capital city 600 miles away, the documents show.


Sadly, the article does not say what the per diem is. But if anyone finds out all you have to do is take the number of days and nights claimed by Palin - 312 - and multiply it by that per diem number.

The article clearly does say that the state did pay over $43,000 for travel and expenses for her husband and children for travel. Pretty unusual for someone who brands herself as a fiscal conservative and gaurdian of the state treasury. Why is it necessary for her husband or/and children to travel with her on state business and pick up their tab for it?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:20 pm 
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I asked this question

Quote:
Why would McCain continue to say things that everyone else in the campaign has known for several days now?



and Hal answered commenting on John McCain

Quote:
Why? because he's an idiot.


Well said sir.

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Last edited by sauronsfinger on Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:21 pm 
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halplm wrote:
If it's not listed as an editorial, it should be.


Yes, it is an editorial, written by the well-known liberal pundit Michael Kinsley. vison linked only to the second page.

sf, you yourself already brought up the ebay issue, on Friday. For heaven's sake, stop repeating yourself.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:32 pm 
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Voronwë , what I brought up today was new. Today, John McCain on the campaign trail. That was the NBC Nightly News report. I was not repeating myself at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:33 pm 
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sauronsfinger wrote:
Regarding the per diem expenses for Sarah Palin. This from todays Washington Post and MSNBC. The garnered this information from state records.

Quote:
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has billed taxpayers for 312 nights spent in her own home during her first 19 months in office, charging a "per diem" allowance intended to cover meals and incidental expenses while traveling on state business.

The governor also has charged the state for travel expenses to take her children on official out-of-town missions. And her husband, Todd, has billed the state for expenses and a daily allowance for trips he makes on official business for his wife.

Palin, who earns $125,000 a year, claimed and received $16,951 as her allowance, which officials say was permitted because her official "duty station" is Juneau, according to an analysis of her travel documents by The Washington Post.

The governor's daughters and husband charged the state $43,490 to travel and many of the trips were to and from their house in Wasilla and Juneau, the capital city 600 miles away, the documents show.


Sadly, the article does not say what the per diem is. But if anyone finds out all you have to do is take the number of days and nights claimed by Palin - 312 - and multiply it by that per diem number.

The article clearly does say that the state did pay over $43,000 for travel and expenses for her husband and children for travel. Pretty unusual for someone who brands herself as a fiscal conservative and gaurdian of the state treasury. Why is it necessary for her husband or/and children to travel with her on state business and pick up their tab for it?


Why is it necessary? Because she isn't required to abandon her family to become Governor, and it is evident throughout our courntry that travel is an acceptable expense for our leaders and their families. Excessive travel is of course questionable, but that same article (or the quotes they and all the others are quoting from), also mentions that Palin's predecessor spend nearly $500,000 in travel expenses the year before, and if you take palin's travel, per diem, and her families travel, you don't even get to $200,000.

One question you might ask is, how much more would it have cost than the per diem, to travel back and forth from Wasilla and Juneau as many times as she would have needed to to spend an appropriate amount of time with her family (if such a thing could be defined).

"fiscally conservative" does not mean "spends no money." It means they look at a situation, all the variables, and pick a solution that makes sense logistically and financially. Has anyone who is so aghast at the idea of Palin taking Per Diem to essentially run the state from her home, actually examed the expense if she had done it differently? Moving her whole family to Juneau, or travelling to and from every weekend for instance, or whatever other alternatives there were?

The articles state that Palin drove to the much closer Anchorage to work out of the state buildings there while living at home. How much of the per diem went to fuel costs for that drive? Oh, no one's asked that question either.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:36 pm 
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Unless the husband and children of Governor Palin was on state business on behalf of the people of Alaska, the people of Alaska have no business paying for it. Thousands of people travel on business every day and leave their families behind. And if they do take them, they are expected to pay for them out oftheir own pocket. That is responsible fiscal management.

Unless you subscribe to the "feeding at the public trough" school of political leadership.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:41 pm 
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and the articles clearly state the travel was on business.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:42 pm 
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I have to say the Palin pick has at least accomplished taking the focus directly off of McCain and Obama if nothing else. My word Dan Quayle hardly got as much press. This selection, while still chancey may turn out to be a maser stroke.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:45 pm 
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As I promised to do, here is the link to the video story from NBC Nightly news in which John McCain claims that Sarah Palin sold the Alaska jet on ebay and for a profit.

Both statements are false.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#26627957

MCCain making these claims is news.

hal... unless the husband and children of Sarah Palin were on Alaska state business, the people of Alaska have no business paying for them.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:46 am 
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Some more fat for the fire:

Email letter about Palin: http://juneau.activote.com/node/3443

Analyses of it's accuracy:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/705/

and more "truth-o-meter" selections:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/

I suppose the people at politifact may be dissembling, but at least they have footnotes.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:55 am 
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Sorry for the shouting. I will edit it into whispers.

The per diems for 300 days @ $200? That comes to $60,000. I doubt that any per diem would be less than $200 for a hotel and 3 meals. Even in Alaska.

Even if it's only "the principle of the thing" and the money was only $6,000, it's still taking money for something you didn't do.

Are we to believe she is a very moral person simply because she is a little more moral than her predecessor? That leaves an awful lot of open space, IMHO.

There is very little likelihood that a second-hand jet would sell for a profit no matter where or how it was sold. If you sell a second-hand car, do you make a profit? Mr. McCain should know better.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:29 am 
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from the AP wire

Quote:
LEBANON, Va. (AP) - What's the difference between the presidential campaign before and after the national political conventions? Lipstick.
The colorful cosmetic has become a political buzzword, thanks to Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin's joke in her acceptance speech that lipstick is the only thing that separates a hockey mom like her from a pit bull.

Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama told an audience Tuesday that GOP presidential nominee John McCain says he'll change Washington, but he's just like President Bush.

"You can put lipstick on a pig," he said to an outbreak of laughter, shouts and raucous applause from his audience, clearly drawing a connection to Palin's joke. "It's still a pig. You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It's still going to stink after eight years."

McCain's campaign immediately organized a telephone conference call in response and called on Obama to apologize for calling Palin a pig. Obama's campaign said he wasn't referring to Palin; he had been talking about McCain immediately before the lipstick comment.


Its about time the gloves came off.

Reason #2,576 to vote for Barack Obama for President.

But check out this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZd_Y_D-RaA

The Republicans are twisting, distorting and perverting the words and intent of Obama in making his statement. The Republicans now have a commercial falsely implying that Obama called Sarah Palin a pig. Imagine that. Obama was clearly saying that for McCain to now dress himself up in the Halloween costume of the Change Agent is like putting lipstick on a pig. But the Republicans, in a shameless display of dishonesty, have take the Obama statement and twisted it, perverted it,and distorted it to mean what they want it to mean and then attack that false meaning.

Do not take my word for it. Call me a liar. But please watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPd4yk0x-eg

That is the CNN coverage of the Obama speech with the full 46 clip on that lipstick remark. Listen to it carefully - listen to it a second time. Sarah Palin is never mentioned. Obama is clearly discussingthe efforts of John McCain to pass himself off as the agent of change.

But go back and watch the Repubican attack commercial that I also linked to. The screen clearly states OMABA ON SARAH PALIN. Oh really?

That statement is an outright bald faced lie told my somebody who knew it was a lie because they had to go through the same footage to get the Obama clips. They knew Obama was not talking about Sarah Palin but they lied anyways.

This is opportunity knocking. The Obama campaign should buy 90 or 120 seconds of prime time on all four networks and show the complete 47 clip from CNN. Show the false Republican labeling and lies and then have Obama come on and say "the Republicans think they can lie to you and fool you. They are playing you for fools. " Have him talk about how they are lying about his tax raises for the rich, how they are lying about Palins and McCains reform record, how they are lying about other key positions.

"And then ask, do you like being lied to.?"

They need to hit hard and hit fast.

Its no coincidence that the one of the Republicans leading the media frenzy on this phony lipstick smear is named Swift.

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Last edited by sauronsfinger on Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:23 pm 
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I think this could cost him.

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Only if they do not sieze the opportunity.
Only if they do not expose the lie.
Only if they do not pivot off this and strongly attack the entire Republican lie machine.

Barack Obama was NOT talking about Sarah Palin with his lipstick on a pig remark.

But John McCain was talking about a woman - Hillary Clinton - when he made his lipstick on a pig remark ripping into Hillary Clintons health plans.

from a campaign stop in Des Moines, Iowa on October 11, 2007

Quote:
McCain criticized Democratic contenders for offering what he called costly universal health care proposals that require too much government regulation. While he said he had not studied Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton's health-care plan, he said it was "eerily reminiscent" of the failed plan she offered as first lady in the early 1990s.

"I think they put some lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig," he said of her proposal.


http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/polit ... lan_a.html

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