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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:26 pm 
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I also seem to recall from somewhere Tolkien stating that the Elves really didn't bother writing history at the beginning; they had no need to. It was only in the latter part of the War of the Jewels, after the Bragollach, that writing down history as a sort of backup, insurance against the loss of living memory, was undertaken.

One wonders if Elrond's having a library was due to his Mannish half....


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:28 pm 
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That makes sense, though I don't recall seeing it anywhere right now. If you happen to remember a source, let me know.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:02 pm 
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Hmm, that's interesting Solicitr. All I can think of right now is note 24 to The Shibboleth with its: '... insurance against their own death' (and etc).


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:23 pm 
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I was also wondering if people think it's going too far to consider Tolkien's later note (on the envelope) as a sort of 'ratification' of DA as a post-Lord of the Rings text.

In other words, Akallabêth may seem to be the ultimate version of Númenor's fall, but perhaps Tolkien was later thinking of publishing alternate versions of this tale, as part of a diverse legendarium, and DA could serve that purpose well enough, even as it stood (although likely with some revision before a 'final' account was reached). And basically the text fit in with the post-Elfwine theory of transmission (if Elfwine was wholly out that is).

____________

And since I'm here I'll add the note I referred to above:


'... but the lore of the Eldar did not depend on perishable records, being stored in the vast houses of their minds (*23). When the Eldar made records in written form, even those that to us would seem voluminous, they did only summarise, as it were, for the use of others whose lore was maybe in other fields of knowledge, (*24) matters which were kept forever undimmed in intricate detail in their minds.'

Note 24: 'And as some insurance against their own death. For books were made only in strong places at a time when death in battle was likely to befall any of the Eldar, but it was not yet believed that Morgoth could ever capture or destroy their fortresses.'

JRRT, The Shibboleth of Fëanor


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:45 pm 
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Yes, that's the note I was thinking about
-------------------------


What about DA/ Akallabêth being a parallel to the Jahwist/Elohist versions of the Pentateuch, a North Kingdom/South Kingdom thing? Elendil writing in the North in direct contact with Lindon and Rivendell, and his descendants remaining an actively Elf-Friendly culture (its Crown Princes were traditionally fostered by Elrond); versus DA written in Gondor, which rapidly distanced itself from the Eldar, and was much more a mirror of Imperial Númenor with its power and its funerary cult.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:56 pm 
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solicitr wrote:
What about DA/ Akallabêth being a parallel to the Jahwist/Elohist versions of the Pentateuch, a North Kingdom/South Kingdom thing? Elendil writing in the North in direct contact with Lindon and Rivendell, and his descendants remaining an actively Elf-Friendly culture (its Crown Princes were traditionally fostered by Elrond); versus DA written in Gondor, which rapidly distanced itself from the Eldar, and was much more a mirror of Imperial Númenor with its power and its funerary cult.


Somehow I didn't see this part of your post before. Within this scenario I assume Elendil's version is still a mixed version, and I guess, from your perspective, the idea is that the Mannish (Southern) notions have, in a sense, been corrected in part by the Eldar within Elendil's version -- meaning the Elves knew the world was originally flat and made round.


But should not the Elvish teaching, at least, be consistent with respect to both Elvish and Southern versions? Just raising the point again, as Voronwë seemed like he was going to comment earlier.

I wonder if the truth of certain statements in the mixed version (Elendil's) are possibly to be considered by comparison with the other two traditions, and thus FN arguably awaited revision to round world -- agreeing with Elvish teaching in DA.


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