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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:24 pm 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Good point. I saw that mentioned elsewhere as well: http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/g ... e;so=DESC;

Ah, there's me being beat by YouTubers.

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I was quite vocal in my opinion that Young Aragorn was the most likely path the series would go, but I would be delighted to be wrong on this count. Though I'm still unconvinced they could make a satisfying Second Age series unless there's been an unannounced second deal making TS and/or UT available.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:56 pm 
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I agree. The wild card, of course, is the supposed involvement of the Tolkien Estate, but even so it seems like Christopher would need to give his personal okay for any use of those books since he is listed as the editor (and presumably would be a copyright holder) and I just don't see that happening. But some of the names used really are suggestive of UT be part of the package. I don't know; we'll have to wait and see! I admit my interest level has gone up somewhat from when it seemed clear that it was going to be the "Adventures of Young Aragorn". But I continue to be cautiously pessimistic. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than have high hopes dashed.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:21 pm 
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Sounds like a good approach to me! My take is that I didn't ask for this or particularly want it, but that just means a good show would be an unexpected boon and a bad one easily ignored. (It's easier to say that now that I'm not involved in forum governance like I was during the Hobbit movies; I'd forgotten how nice it was to not care about things before they wrapped up and I stepped down. :spin:) Though despite not being particularly optimistic, it's nice to get away from the reflexive negativity that sometimes flourishes online.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:37 pm 
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As V has already predicted, we will probably get a new map tomorrow, and potentially a great reveal on Thursday (e.g. setting confirmation, first castings, etc.).

This could change again tomorrow but given the currently released map information I think it is a good bet to claim that they will produce a series about the Forging of the Rings. There are several good reasons for such a scenario (likely all stated elsewhere already):

1.) As mentioned above, the maps (Calenardhon and Laurelindorenan but no Gondor (or Arnor for that matter)).

2.) The Twitter account bears the name LOTRonPrime which indicates some involvement of the Ring in the plot + plus the citing of the ring poem reinforces this idea.

3.) A "Making of the Rings" (MotR) storyline allows for a setting that is geographically far reaching (à la GoT), i.e. takes places in many regions of Middle-earth. This would allow for a series of smaller storylines, changes of scenery, etc. Compare this to an Eorl storyline for example: lore-wise you only get a conflict between men (Gondor, Northmen, Balchoth). Producers will want a series that features at least some dwarves, elves, and orcs. You could still do that, of course, with any other setting but you do not have to bend the rules with a MotR storyline.

4.) MotR would feature Sauron/Annatar as an important and visible character. Modern TV strongly relies on strong, prominent, and shifty villains in its storylines; sometimes to a fault. You need factions. Annatar would potentially offer that.

5.) As dumb as it might sound, but marketing wise a MotR storyline is one of the few, if not the only one, that makes sense. For brand-recognition purposes the series will likely be called "Lord of the Rings". How can you call a series LotR if it is not an adaption of the book? Well, you tell the story of how Sauron became the Lord of the Rings. That way you can justify the name AND also why, from an artistic perspective, you make such a series anyways. No matter what, the series will, thanks to the Hobbit trilogy, face some fatigue backlash from general Internet audiences/critics (e.g. they are milking it again?). In order to mitigate this, they arguably need a strong arc-storyline, i.e. not "young Aragorn" but "all of Middle-earth".

Personal verdict: If they truly go with a "forging of the rings"-storyline it sounds certainly more promising than anything taking place shortly before the War of the Ring. It would demand from them a greater understanding of the source-material; an adaption of Tolkienian themes and not just Jacksonian aesthetics (this is not a slight against Jackson; what is meant here is that the series could mimic the aesthetics of the films and simply rely on that).
Yet setting alone does not mean much. A MotR storyline could just as well be turned into a poor man's Game of Thrones. O tempora o mores.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:39 pm 
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You make a darn strong case. Too good, maybe (as in "too good to be true").

Hopefully we will get some substantial information over the next two days.

Edited to add: although it will be interesting to see if they just use the next line of the poem "One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne" or all of the rest of the lines about Sauron, and if they do, if will they give them all at once, or continue to give them one by one. Maybe we'll still have five more updates?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:21 am 
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If they do the forging of the Rings and Second Age and a charismatic and deceptive Sauron, it is hard for me to imagine not also treating the fall of Númenor in some form (whatever the legal details may be), which certainly has the moral ambiguity and byzantine politics to appeal to the Game of Thrones segment. It could commercially appeal to a pretty broad and diverse audience, as it has both explicit religious elements in a way that is rare in prestige TV and strong anti-colonial themes. And you can have some fun seafaring adventures in there too. So something for most everyone really, if done well of course.

Actually, the biggest challenge out of step with modern TV would probably be to also show Númenor as noble and worth saving, not just as corrupt, decadent and imperialist!

That said, I am still very much prepared for the possibility this is some sort of "historical" map to establish backstory for the late Thrid Age. I am rooting against young Aragorn but not setting my expectations too high.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:32 am 
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That would be kind of cool. Sixteen independent stories about individuals stuck in the middle of difficult circumstances they could solve if only they had a little more power, each of whom ultimately decides to accept a ring of power for all the best reasons, and; well, you know the rest.


Last edited by Dave_LF on Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:07 pm 
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Well, here we go:
https://www.amazon.com/adlp/lotronprime

Among other things, we have Minas Ithil, Minas Anor, Fornost, and Annuminas. So something early-mid Third Age is looking likely.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:08 pm 
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I can see the appeal of a forging of the Rings series, but unless there has been a second deal which gives Amazon access to posthumously-published material, they wouldn't even be able to use the name "Annatar", so I think that scenario is unlikely.

I would be fascinated to see a story that puts more emphasis on the political and social aspects of Middle-earth's history, including issues of colonialism, as kzer_za mentions. I'm not sure how much confidence I have in Amazon to do the topic justice, but it's something of a personal hobbyhorse of mine, so I'd be happy to see the topic brought onto more people's radar. Though I imagine that my stance on the moral rightness of the Númenóreans--at any stage of their Second or Third Age history--might be a minority viewpoint. Image


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:10 pm 
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My current thinking is that the most likely possibility is the battle against the Witchking, leading to the fall of Arnor, which will introduce Aragorn's story.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:47 am 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
My current thinking is that the most likely possibility is the battle against the Witchking, leading to the fall of Arnor, which will introduce Aragorn's story.


Gawd I hope so. Arnor and the Dúnedain of the North got totally dissed by PJ. I hope for the best with this, and will expect the worst.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:07 pm 
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Well, today's update redraws the map with names like Khazad-dûm and some Second Age forests.

Oh yeah, and a little island that starts with "N" and ends with "or." Complete with region names like Forostar, so presumably they've negotiated rights to some additional material...this might actually be happening huh? Or is this just going to be historical background (but it's so detailed that I doubt it!)

EDIT: Amazon also said "welcome to the Second Age." So yes, looks like they really are doing it!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:39 pm 
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Well, golly gee!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:42 pm 
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LotR Amazon just updated their fb cover page.

It's a little, star-shaped lsland...I'll let that sink in. (Pun intended :D)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:07 pm 
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It certainly appears that they have obtained additional rights. I certainly hope so, otherwise, it is going to be difficult to do this without seeming bad to anyone who knows the tale well.

It appears that they have updated the map to eliminate things that suggested Third Age. The East Bight is gone, and Moria has been renamed Khazad-dûm. So does this map replace the other map, or supplement it? Edit: No Imladris on this map, either.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:30 pm 
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This appears to be fairly early in the Second Age - the coastal forests are still there, for one thing.

If they have rights to UT as appears to be the case, I wonder if we'll see Aldarion and Erendis? It's the only fully (well, almost fully) fleshed-out character-driven Second Age story, we can see Númenor at its height with Meneldur and then the very earliest seeds of its fall with Aldarion, and Erendis gives them one of Tolkien's best female characters to work with.

At any rate, I do expect some compression of the timeline.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:50 pm 
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I had the same question (about The Mariners Wife aka Aldoarion and Erendis). My other question is whether any of the new rights include Akallabêth and/or "Of the Rings of Power … ." It seems like it would be very difficult to tell significant Second Age stories without either following or conflicting with those texts.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:53 pm 
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I am a bad Tolkien nerd. I just re-read The Sil a couple months ago (for the first time in over a decade) and I already kinda forgot what all happens in the second age or with Númenor.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:59 pm 
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No Minas Anor, Osgiliath, or Minas Ithil; also a larger Tolfalas and no Ethir Anduin too. Amazon seems to have done their homework. Though the Dead Marshes appear to be about the same size as in the Third Age map.

Anyway, definitely exciting. I love "Aldarion and Erendis" but would never in a million years have thought the show would adapt that. Still not sure it will, but it certainly seems like a possibility now, as it's hard to imagine a second deal not having occurred.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:39 pm 
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Another question: if they really are going to do significant Second Age storylines, including (the rise and?) fall of Númenor, how much backstory from the First Age (or even the days before the Rising of the Sun and the Moon) are they going to include. How much sense is it going to make without that backstory?

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