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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:13 pm 
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Lately, this part of the forum has not seen a lot of traffic. So it's time for some discussion!

I would like to know your six most favorite and your three least favorite scenes from the Middle-earth movies. List reasons aplenty! (So, ideally, don't just list six scenes but go into detail why said scenes for example captured the written word best, why the excelled from a cinematic point of view, etc.)

I shall list my scenes later. I need to get some sleep now.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:56 pm 
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That's an ambitious question! I hope it gets responses. I'll try to give it some thought and post my response when I can.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:58 pm 
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Hmm. I assume you want to include both LOTR and TH? That's a bit tough since I don't remember TH nearly as well (only saw AUJ twice, the others once) but I'm sure 2 of my 3 least favorites would be in these somewhere (but 0 of the favorites). In LOTR, there are plenty of bad scenes but the only really, truly awful scene for me is POTD...

ETA - here's a great site that lets you go over all the movie scenes that will help job our memories. :)

http://www.framecaplib.com/lotrlib.htm

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:33 pm 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
That's an ambitious question! I hope it gets responses. I'll try to give it some thought and post my response when I can.


Thanks for giving it some thought, V. I know you are not a fan of such lists but I say it depends on the quality of the posts. If people just list their favorite scenes without any context, depth, or reasons said lists are pretty useless and boring. So I am looking forward to just the opposite from you! :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:00 pm 
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Off the top of my head, three least favourite scenes:

1. Faramir's men beating Gollum. Far and away the absolute worst thing in all six movies. If they removed this, the quality would automatically improve a millionfold. I'm literally not exaggerating :P

2. Paths of the Dead. I think PJ once said in an interview that he didn't like this part of the book, and was only including it for the fans. Given what we ended up with, he should have just left it out.

3. I can't choose between Frodo sending Sam away, and the Jumping on the bed scene. That was embarrassingly cheesy.

Now for the good stuff!

Again, this is just off the top of my head, and it might change with some reflection/discussion:

1. The Shire / The Party / The moments between Gandalf/Bilbo and Gandalf/Frodo

2. The Moria sequence, apart from the Cave Troll

3. Galadriel's voice in the Prologue

4. The mourning scene just outside Moria

5. The Muster of Rohan

6. The Passing of Boromir

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:27 am 
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Least favourite scenes:

1) Aragorn falling over the cliff in TT

2) Denethor's cliff dive. I fee SO strongly that scene would have had a much bigger wallop if it had been played the way it was in the book, with Denethor dying on the funeral pyre with the Palantíri in his hands!

3) Skull avalanche in POTD, followed by Lego shooting P.J. disguised as a pirate. I liked Aragorn's encounter with the King of the Dead, though. There was some nice tension in that scene.

Favourite Scenes:

I know some people think the Grey Havens scene was cheesy and overdone. Well, I like it...a LOT!
My two favourite moments were where a sleepy, dying Bilbo suddenly wakes up, and displays the spirit that started off this whole wonderful series of books back in The Hobbit: "Well, I'm always ready for one more adventure!" he declares, as Elrond helps him up the gangplank.

Second favourite: Frodo's wonderful smile as all the cares and pain begin to drop away from him as he turns to go up the gangplank to the ship. It gives such a great sense of closure to know he is at peace at last.

2) The opening scenes in the Shire, especially Gandalf's arrival (right out of Alan Lee's marvellous painting!) and his interactions with Frodo and Bilbo.

3) Boromir's death scene

4) Okay, starting to struggle now... the lighting of the beacons, followed by Théoden's line "And Rohan will answer" was extremely well done.

5) Théoden's speech in TT, and the blowing of the horn of Helm Hammerhand was one of few really great moments in TT.

6) Aragorn's speech to the troops before the battle at the Black Gate.

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Last edited by Sunsilver on Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:34 am 
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Sunsilver wrote:
1) Aragorn falling over the cliff in TT....


I've long been baffled why so many were so bothered by such a relatively minor moment. :scratch: :scratch:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:50 am 
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Yov, because anyone who was the least bit familiar with the book knew he couldn't die. It just annoyed me SO much that PJ though he could get away with creating fake tension by trying to persuade us he had! :rage:

Come to think of it, most of my least favourite moments in P.J.'s movies involve falls from great heights (the walkway in AUJ) or people/things defying gravity and other laws of physics (Lego in BOFA, the walkways collapsing in Moria, etc.etc.)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:57 am 
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Sure, but why is that bit of fake tension any worse than any other bit of fake tension? It's not like he really even tries to make us the audience think he's dead for long as I recall. To me it's purpose is more about Éowyn's reaction when he returns which I personally think is a lovely moment.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:22 am 
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That is a nice moment. It also is an excuse to get Arwen into the film, once they abandoned having her in Helms Deep. While the horse-kissy stuff was silly, some of the stuff with Arwen was quite nice, and having her say "May the grace of the Valar protect you" was a very nice nod to the book. But the main reason for the cliff dive was so that it could be Aragorn who reveals to Théoden that there is a 10,000-strong army coming to attack Helms Deep, following the "money shot" of him pushing open those doors.

I'll be back with my own list, hopefully tomorrow.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:53 am 
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My favourite scenes are pretty obvious ones. The Lighting of the Beacons, Gandalfs ride through the streets of Minas Tirith, The Ride of the Rohirrim and of course that first shot of the Shire as Gandalfs cart goes through the gap in the hedgerow.

Least favourite? Most of the forced comedy jars. Gimli, burping hobbits etc. Faramir at Osgiliath never bothered me. I hated "go home Sam" mostly because it was so hammy by both Astin and Wood. But for me, my least favourite moment is the one that didn't make it into the movie.

Quote:
"Soon he came out alone on the summit of Amon Hen, and halted, gasping for breath. He saw as through a mist a wide flat circle, paved with mighty flags, and surrounded with a crumbling battlement; and in the middle, set upon four carven pillars, was a high seat, reached by a stair of many steps. Up he went and sat upon the ancient chair, feeling like a lost child that had clambered upon the throne of mountain-kings.

At first he could see little. He seemed to be in a world of mist in which there were only shadows: the Ring was upon him. Then here and there the mist gave way and he saw many visions: small and clear as if they were under his eyes upon a table, and yet remote. There was no sound, only bright living images. The world seemed to have shrunk and fallen silent. He was sitting upon the Seat of Seeing, on Amon Hen, the Hill of the Eye of the Men of Númenor. Eastward he looked into wide uncharted lands, nameless plains, and forests unexplored. Northward he looked, and the Great River lay like a ribbon beneath him, and the Misty Mountains stood small and hard as broken teeth. Westward he looked and saw the broad pastures of Rohan; and Orthanc, the pinnacle of Isengard, like a black spike. Southward he looked, and below his very feet the Great River curled like a toppling wave and plunged over the falls of Rauros into a foaming pit; a glimmering rainbow played upon the fume. And Ethir Anduin he saw, the mighty delta of the River, and myriads of sea-birds whirling like a white dust in the sun, and beneath them a green and silver sea, rippling in endless lines.

But everywhere he looked he saw the signs of war. The Misty Mountains were crawling like anthills: orcs were issuing out of a thousand holes. Under the boughs of Mirkwood there was deadly strife of Elves and Men and fell beasts. The land of the Beornings was aflame; a cloud was over Moria; smoke rose on the borders of Lórien.

Horsemen were galloping on the grass of Rohan; wolves poured from Isengard. From the havens of Harad ships of war put out to sea; and out of the East Men were moving endlessly: swordsmen, spearmen, bowmen upon horses, chariots of chieftains and laden wains. All the power of the Dark Lord was in motion. Then turning south again he beheld Minas Tirith. Far away it seemed. and beautiful: white-walled, many-towered, proud and fair upon its mountain-seat; its battlements glittered with steel, and its turrets were bright with many banners. Hope leaped in his heart. But against Minas Tirith was set another fortress, greater and more strong. Thither, eastward, unwilling his eye was drawn. It passed the ruined bridges of Osgiliath, the grinning gates of Minas Morgul. and the haunted Mountains, and it looked upon Gorgoroth, the valley of terror in the Land of Mordor. Darkness lay there under the Sun. Fire glowed amid the smoke. Mount Doom was burning, and a great reek rising. Then at last his gaze was held: wall upon wall, battlement upon battlement, black, immeasurably strong, mountain of iron, gate of steel, tower of adamant, he saw it: Barad-dûr, Fortress of Sauron. All hope left him."


How could they NOT film that?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:39 pm 
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Damn, could that guy Tolkien write, or what? ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:41 pm 
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:agree:

My thought wasn't "How could they NOT film that?", it was "How could anyone read this and not instantly give up knowing anything they filmed couldn't live up to this awesomeness?" :P

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:48 pm 
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Sometimes, words are worth a thousand pictures.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:08 pm 
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Indeed. I'm glad that they did not try to film that. There is no way it would have lived up to Tolkien's writings, in my opinion. To some extent, I feel the same way about Gollum's near-redemption scene, although part of me wishes that they had tried (particularly after seeing how well they did with the pity of Bilbo (although granted the CGI had improved tremendously by then, and yes that will be on my list).

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:21 pm 
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So here is my list, at least as it stands right at this moment. Undoubtedly it would be different at some other moment.

Least Favorite:

1) Has to be Frodo sending Sam home. I understand the rationale behind it, and the pay off with Frodo entering Shelob's lair alone and then Sam arriving to rescue him is not bad, but it just goes so counter to everything that Tolkien wrote about the relationship between these two.

2) Gandalf whacking Denethor. Again, so contrary to what Gandalf would actually do in that situation.

3) Thorin's false anger/hug at the end of AUJ. Just rings so false, and the relationship between the two of them never quite recovers.

Honourable mention: all of Alfrid's bad humour in BotFA, Wizard Fu, all of Gimli's bad humour throughout the LOTR films, the skull avalanche, the botched troll scene, Aragorn beheading the MoS, Arwen blubbering over Frodo, the "reunion" of the fellowship after Frodo wakes up, and much more.

Favorites:

1) Still has to be Arwen beside Aragorn's death bed. I can forgive Peter and friends much for giving us such a sublime scene with so much of some Tolkien's best writing.

2) The pity of Bilbo. So much brilliance with no dialogue. Martin is incredible in how much he is able to express with his face, but the most amazing thing is how Andy and the wizards of WETA are able to make it so clear at that moment why Gollum should be pitied. Just an incredible scene.

3) The entrance to Erebor. Just so moving.

4) Thorin's death scene. Once can quibble over the changing of "food and cheer and song" to "home" but the basic power of the scene comes through in full.

5) Everything from "Good Morning" to "Misty Mountain's Cold". That is perhaps cheating to include of all of that as "one moment" but it really captures the early part of The Hobbit so well.

6) The eagles rescue of Frodo and Sam from Mt. Doom. Sublime beauty.

Too many honourable mentions to possible try to mention!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:56 pm 
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That is perhaps cheating


You could remove the "perhaps" from that statement. :P

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:28 pm 
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Interesting list, V. I believe you are the first who mentions scenes from "The Hobbit" (both as favortes/least favorite).

I think one's opinion on Aragorn's "little tumble off the cliff" to a certain degree depends on whether you are a book- or moviefirster (or course this is generally true for every scene in a book adaptation). Fake deaths, or to put it better, scenes where a main character apparently dies, are of course much more powerful if you do not know where the story is going. Hence, I would say that Gandalf's sacrifice at the bridge of Khazad-dûm felt even more powerful to me, as I had not read that part of the book. When TTT rolled out, I had already read the entire "Lord of the Rings" and thus knew that Aragorn would make a return. That said, I did not take any offense with that scene, as it did not feel "lazy". A lazy fake death scene in the Middle-earth films for me would be the Rock-Giants scene where half of the party is apparently crushed to death. I believe every eight-year-old movie-firster would sense that nobody died.

yov, where's your list? :poke: :banana: :banana: :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:12 pm 
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Beutlin wrote:
yov, where's your list? :poke: :banana: :banana: :D


I'll do it over the weekend, promise. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:19 pm 
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Um, excuse me, but they DID film Amon Hen in FOTR, didn't they? Just not the way it should have been done... though you do get a very good sense of how hopeless Frodo's quest seems by the end of that scene.

Hey, I didn't realize I was allowed to include The Hobbit... will have to add to my 'dislike' list! And the scene in the Shire is definitely on MY favourite list too with those movies, especially the Misty Mountain song, and the Washing Up song!

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