The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies fan reviews... SPOILERS

[Dave_LF]

And I'd imagine that being confronted by Sauron and the nine in the middle of Dol Guldur is a pretty frightening experience, even if you know cerebrally that you can handle them (with substantial risk at great personal cost). Fear is kind of their stock in trade, after all.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Well, after she made such a big deal of telling Gandalf that he should not be afraid, because he could call on her if needed, it seems strange that she would be shown as being so afraid.

[Pearly Di]

Just saw it a second time, and I liked it even more second time round. As I said on TORC ...

I think it's the best of the Hobbit films, actually! Although I like AUJ. DoS is definitely the weakest of the three, by a very long shot - way too long, and all that silliness in Erebor - although it, too, had moments I liked.

It was of course daft to spread the source material too thinly, like butter scraped over too much bread. We all know that. And as much as I love and respect The Hobbit - an awesome tale in its own right - it does NOT make me feel emotional the way that LotR does, and it never will. The Hobbit takes the reader to one level, and that level is wonderful: LotR then takes you to far greater levels, greater depths and heights. And then The Silmarillion ... wow!

But. Although I love the LotR films more, the annoying things in them annoy me more than the annoying things in the Hobbit films. If that makes sense. And I'd still much rather watch PJ's Hobbit films than the Star Wars prequels. I don't think PJ has done anything like as bad as a George Lucas here.

This time, I found myself greatly enjoying the antics of Legolas. Movie Legolas, unlike his modest Sindarin canon counterpart, is like some Uber-Noldo constantly defying gravity. I can't deny that I enjoy that.

I thought that the backstory about Legolas's mother had a Celebrían vibe. I do really like Thranduil. A lot. I like it when Elves aren't quite nice. I also chuckled at Dain taunting him.

I am now looking forward to the EE. (I've not actually watched the others yet!!)

[Passdagas the Brown]

DoS is definitely the weakest of the three, by a very long shot

Takes all kinds, I suppose! I think it's the best. And had the Erebor silliness been trimmed down significantly, it would have been, IMO, a very good film from an objective point of view (though I would not want to lose the moment where the dwarves come across their dead kin, which was great - and I really like the gold dwarf statue - just not most of what leads up to it)!

Although I love the LotR films more, the annoying things in them annoy me more than the annoying things in the Hobbit films. If that makes sense.

This. 100 times.

[yovargas]

Although I love the LotR films more, the annoying things in them annoy me more than the annoying things in the Hobbit films. If that makes sense.

This. 100 times.

I also agree with that quote but I think it's because I care more, not because they necessarily are much more annoying. (POTD excluded; that's just the worst. )

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Hey! Something we can agree on!

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[Passdagas the Brown]

Sometimes I think the POTD/ resolution of Pelennor, Weathertop, Chase to the Ford, the Council of Elrond, and the Ent nonsense, are at the core of why I don't enjoy the LOTR films.

[yovargas]

Yes, I'm sure without those things you'd love the Grey Havens.
(Of the 5 things you mentioned, I have zero issues with 3.5 of them.)

[Passdagas the Brown]

Oh, and the Grey Havens. And Osgiliath. And Frodo waking up in Minas Tirith...

[Sunsilver]

Sorry, what does POTD stand for? Paths of the dead? TOTALLY agree with you on that one, plus Lego shooting P.J. with an arrow, after they emerge from the paths! Sheer indulgence, P.J. at his worst!

I loved The Grey Havens, though, especially Bilbo's line, "I'm always ready for one more adventure!" because it shows that indomitable spirit that made the whole of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings possible!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Oh, and the Grey Havens. And Osgiliath. And Frodo waking up in Minas Tirith...

And Merry and Pippin crashing into Frodo and Sam to join the company. And all of Gimli's stupid squirrel droppings, nervous system, dwarf tossing jokes, particularly the "dangerous sprinter" joke which contradicts everything that dwarves are supposed to me. Not to mention ALITTTFORT, and Aragorn's cliff dive (and horse French kissing), and Arwen blubbering over Frodo, and all of Frodo's damsel in distress moments, and the ridiculous cockney Orcs (looks like meat is back on the menu, boys!), and Wizard Fu, and all of Sam's overacting (not to mention Haldir), and a bunch of other things, each of which bothered me more than anything in the Hobbit films.

The difference is that while I acknowledge that LOTR is "bigger" than The Hobbit (and not just in the number of pages), I don't acknowledge that it is better, or more important. The Hobbit has a layer of depth and emotional resonance all its own, and the adaptation actually does a better job of capturing it for me that the LOTR films do in capturing the spirit of that classic work.

[Alatar]

You know, you sound like you don't even like the LotR Movies...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

There is a lot that I still love about the LOTR movies, but there is increasingly more that I dislike. The last few times that I tried to watch them I turned them off, or fast forwarded through much of them. Whereas I am currently rereading LOTR (having just finished The Hobbit) and I love it as much as I ever have. Maybe if I come back to the films in a few years it will turn again and the stuff I love will again outweigh the stuff that I don't like.

[Pearly Di]

I like the ridiculous Cockney Orcs. In canon, their talk is rough and uncouth. (Not that cockney dialect is necessarily uncouth, I hasten to add! But I don't see how Cockney Orcs are worse than Cockney trolls, which are canon.)

The LotR films have in their favour an organic, immersive, passionate feel. This was PJ's magnum opus, the project of his heart, and for all the worse sorts of deviations from canon, it shows. It explains why I saw them so many times! They also have many sublime moments.

The Hobbit films don't hit the same heights for me. And there is lots of silly stuff I could well do without. But the silly stuff doesn't affect me that much emotionally, whereas the painful stuff in the LotR films affects me more, because I have a deeper relationship with the story.

I did like the golden statue of Thror, and Smaug's transfixed reaction.

The emotion between Bilbo and Thorin as Thorin died was beautiful. I won't comment much on Azog (a villain I couldn't care less about) but the image under the ice was cool (never mind that you could anticipate his next move!)

[yovargas]

Something I think would be interest would be to hear the opinions of people who are big fans of the movie and are really familiar with them but have never read the books. I'd love to be able to gather a couple hundred such folk and maybe ask what their 10 favorite/least favorite scenes in each trilogy are and compare them to what the book fans rant about.

[Jude]

I have a friend like that; is there anything specific you'd like me to ask her?

Regarding cockney orcs, I had always assumed that "Garn!" was an expletive that Tolkien made up, until I read Liza of Lambeth. I think their dialect is actually meant to be based on what is spoken in that area.

[yovargas]

I have a friend like that; is there anything specific you'd like me to ask her?

Like I said, I'm just curious what those kinds of people would say are the best and worst moments in the trilogies.

[JewelSong]

When I saw FOTR, I did so on a whim. I had no prior knowledge of the movies coming out and had not read the books in at least 40 years...I did not even remember how they ended. What I did remember was the Shire and Frodo and Sam's friendship. I thought the Shire was perfect. I loved the characters of the hobbits. I thought having Merry and Pippin bump into Frodo and Sam was a good way to get them on the journey in the film...doing it to way it happened in the book would have been too slow-paced. I really liked (and still like) the scene at Weathertop and honestly do not understand people's problem with it, as it seems very much the way it was described in the book. My daughter has never read the books and her favorite scene was Arwen's ride and her defiance at the ford. (I have never quite forgiven PJ for stealing Frodo's glory there, though.) I loved the mines of Moria, too, including the falling bridge. I liked the Paths of the Dead...again, it seemed very much like the book to me. (I didn't care for the EE of ROTK, though.) Arwen's life being "tied to the ring" seemed kinda stupid to me, but I didn't really pay that much attention to it.

I loved the troll scene in the Hobbit, I thought it captured some of the whimsy of the book. Loved Goblin-town for the same reasons. Mostly, I felt that PJ took away much of the original charm and whimsy of the Hobbit in trying to make it another serious trilogy.


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[JewelSong]

When I saw FOTR, I did so on a whim. I had no prior knowledge of the movies coming out and had not read the books in at least 40 years...I did not even remember how they ended. What I did remember was the Shire and Frodo and Sam's friendship. I thought the Shire was perfect. I loved the characters of the hobbits. I thought having Merry and Pippin bump into Frodo and Sam was a good way to get them on the journey in the film...doing it to way it happened in the book would have been too slow-paced. I really liked (and still like) the scene at Weathertop and honestly do not understand people's problem with it, as it seems very much the way it was described in the book. My daughter has never read the books and her favorite scene was Arwen's ride and her defiance at the ford. (I have never quite forgiven PJ for stealing Frodo's glory there, though.) I loved the mines of Moria, too, including the falling bridge. I liked the Paths of the Dead...again, it seemed very much like the book to me. (I didn't care for the EE of ROTK, though.) Arwen's life being "tied to the ring" seemed kinda stupid to me, but I didn't really pay that much attention to it.

I loved the troll scene in the Hobbit, I thought it captured some of the whimsy of the book. Loved Goblin-town for the same reasons. Mostly, I felt that PJ took away much of the original charm and whimsy of the Hobbit in trying to make it another serious trilogy.


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[Elentári]

Regarding cockney orcs, I had always assumed that "Garn!" was an expletive that Tolkien made up, until I read Liza of Lambeth. I think their dialect is actually meant to be based on what is spoken in that area.

I seem to remember it was a favourite expression of Eliza Doolittle...


Regarding the current discussion on PJ's excesses, I think we could conclude that the same travesties are committed in both trilogies, and due to the greater passion which LotR arouses in most of us, I can sort of understand V saying they bother him more in that. For me, LotR is big enough to cope with PJ's missteps, and not suffer overly for it, whilst TH is not, and in places Tolkien gets drowned out by PJ...