The Appendices: Parts 7 and 8

[Alatar]

Ok, so I finally got round to watching some of these last night. So far I've only seen as far as the Unexpected Party filming. I find that in a funny way this felt more like "Lord of the Rings" to me than The Hobbit movies have so far. And by that I mean the whole LotR experience came flooding back in a way it didn't with the movies. It felt like being back with old friends on a reunion.

Anyone else feel that?

Also, I thought it would be nice to have a thread for discussing just these appendices rather than mixing it into the Movie threads!

[Elentári]

Yes!! I can sit and watch all these behind-the-scenes clips and thoroughly enjoy the experience far more than I have the actual movies...I still appreciate the sheer love and effort that has gone into making this trilogy as much as the original and will continue to purchase the tie-in material, etc. It really is only some scripting/directing decisions that cause problems for me. (And in my ideal world, a fan edit once all three EEs are released would solve that! )

[Passdagas the Brown]

Agreed 100%. Love these segments far more than the film itself.

[Alatar]

Its funny really. I was watching the section on "Under hill.." where they talk about the Goblins. I remember all the complaints about the CGI Goblins not having enough "weight" and that it was obvious that the Dwarves were reacting to nothing. Then you watch the special feature and see that they were being physically manhandled by stunthands and extras in latex costumes. Sure, in some shots the heads or faces were digitally added, and in some sections the entire goblins were replaced by CG versions, but that doesn't change the fact that the movement and reactions were largely physical! In the same way, I would have assumed that the collapsing floor in the cave was CG, when in fact it was an extremely dangerous physical stunt!

Just goes to show. You can't trust your eyes, and even less, people of teh Internets!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Yup!

[Passdagas the Brown]

Its funny really. I was watching the section on "Under hill.." where they talk about the Goblins. I remember all the complaints about the CGI Goblins not having enough "weight" and that it was obvious that the Dwarves were reacting to nothing. Then you watch the special feature and see that they were being physically manhandled by stunthands and extras in latex costumes. Sure, in some shots the heads or faces were digitally added, and in some sections the entire goblins were replaced by CG versions, but that doesn't change the fact that the movement and reactions were largely physical! In the same way, I would have assumed that the collapsing floor in the cave was CG, when in fact it was an extremely dangerous physical stunt!

Just goes to show. You can't trust your eyes, and even less, people of teh Internets!

According to PJ, ALL of the physical goblins were entirely replaced by CGI goblins.

Also, I always liked the look of the goblins (and prefer the look of the CGI goblins and orcs to the prosthetics-laden dudes of LOTR). But the goblins lost all of their believability when they started getting tossed into pits by the thousands by little miniature CGI dwarves.

I tend to think that CGI can be superior to practical effects. But they need to be used sparingly and smartly. When you start throwing in thousands of CGI goblins against entirely CGI backgrounds, it starts to really show. And that's when the "weight" of things starts to disappear.

GoT uses CGI in moderation, and for the most part, it's enormously successful. PJ got carried away with it, and it took people out of the story.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Oh for heaven's sake.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Er, I was actually pretty positive about the use of CGI for orcs and goblins in that post (moreso than the majority of fans, actually - many of whom prefer LOTR's use of prosthetics).

PJ also made it clear that they ultimately replaced all of the physical goblins (their whole bodies, not just their heads) and I was clarifying that point.

Not sure why that warranted a "for heaven's sake."

[Alatar]

I didn't get the impression that they "ultimately replaced all of the physical goblins". I understood PJ to be saying that in some scenes, as they progressed in the shooting, they replaced them entirely, but even if that were true, it doesn't change my point. The CGI goblins were overlaid on physical ones, therefore the "weight" was present.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Either in the appendices, or a vlog, PJ states that all of the goblins were fully digital. Though yes, that doesn't hurt your overall point.

I would agree that the goblins, particularly in close up scenes, to me have a lot of weight.

But when they get tossed at the dwarves en masse during the extended chase scene, the way they are dispatched goes a long way in cancelling that weight out, IMO.

I think the goblin tunnels, toned down a bit in terms of the sheer amount of CGI (and fully CGI shots), could have been really great.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Er, I was actually pretty positive about the use of CGI for orcs and goblins in that post (moreso than the majority of fans, actually - many of whom prefer LOTR's use of prosthetics). Not sure why that warranted a "for heaven's sake."

PJ also made it clear that they ultimately replaced all of the physical goblins (their whole bodies, not just their heads) and I was clarifying that point.

Not sure why that warranted a "for heaven's sake."

Because I'm sick of the endless need to include a comparison with GoT with every comment about TH.

[JewelSong]

...I'm sick of the endless need to include a comparison with GoT with every comment about TH.

Endless need? EVERY comment? Srsly?

Don't you think you might be exaggerating just a tad?

[Passdagas the Brown]

Jewel: My friend Voronwë probably knows he's exaggerating. Even though he claims to be one of the more measured and reasonable persons on the planet, he does tend to become infected by this disease from time to time. In this case, I'm probably the one who gave it to him. You see, when I exaggerate, he tends to exaggerate in response!

So it's probably all my fault.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Er, I was actually pretty positive about the use of CGI for orcs and goblins in that post (moreso than the majority of fans, actually - many of whom prefer LOTR's use of prosthetics). Not sure why that warranted a "for heaven's sake."

PJ also made it clear that they ultimately replaced all of the physical goblins (their whole bodies, not just their heads) and I was clarifying that point.

Not sure why that warranted a "for heaven's sake."

Because I'm sick of the endless need to include a comparison with GoT with every comment about TH.

Well, the comment you just quoted doesn't include any such comparison. Nor does this one.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

You know what I mean, and you know that I am correct. But it is all good.

Maybe I should start thread comparing the work of Alfonso Cuarón with that of David Benioff and D. B. Weiss. That'll distract you.

[Passdagas the Brown]

You wouldn't dare!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

No, but it is an amusing thought.

[Smaug's voice]

Maybe I should start thread comparing the work of Alfonso Cuarón with
that of David Benioff and D. B. Weiss. That'll distract you.

Yes pleease.