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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:15 pm 
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Finally, we get to see giant shrews and moles in battle. Thank you, Peter!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:14 pm 
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Elentári wrote:
Maybe Saruman turns up late to clean up after everyone else has had a go!

On the same subject, I was just remembering Sylvester McCoy's comments on what he had filmed of the DG 'assault' back at Armageddon Expo last year, where he said that Saruman was directing the attack from a vantage point...I wonder if all that is still valid, or if it has been changed for a more "intimate" confrontation?


So far as I am aware, Christopher Lee never returned for additional filming, so I doubt it changed much from what they originally filmed. But I don't know how much I would trust Sylvester McCoy.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:07 am 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
Elentári wrote:
Maybe Saruman turns up late to clean up after everyone else has had a go!

On the same subject, I was just remembering Sylvester McCoy's comments on what he had filmed of the DG 'assault' back at Armageddon Expo last year, where he said that Saruman was directing the attack from a vantage point...I wonder if all that is still valid, or if it has been changed for a more "intimate" confrontation?


So far as I am aware, Christopher Lee never returned for additional filming, so I doubt it changed much from what they originally filmed. But I don't know how much I would trust Sylvester McCoy.


Ye of little faith. Peter Jackson can, and likely has, created a fully-realized Christopher Lee digital double that will be able to perform a number of things that were never filmed.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:42 am 
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Why is it that you say things that I either completely agree with or completely roll my eyes at, with no in between.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:34 am 
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There's no mushy middle with me. I'm either right or completely right! :)

But you have to admit, there's very little that PJ won't do with digital doubles. I believe it was either Armitage or McKellen, when talking about Goblintown, who said that most of the chase sequence involved their digital double hopping around and doing things they never did (or could) do as actors. No reason why PJ won't have Saruman's digital double pull some zany tricks against Sauron.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:54 am 
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Nor is there any reason why he shouldn't. Bring it on. It'll be better than Wizard Fu, I guarantee.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:22 am 
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I'd take Wizard Fu, with all its awkwardness, over digital doubles performing impossible physical feats, any day.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:44 am 
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Saruman is not going to be doing silly Legolas-style impossible physical feats, even if they use a digital double for him. Anymore than Gandalf did when they used a digital double for him during the great scene with him and Sauron in DoS. Honestly, PtB, for a person as smart and discerning as you are, you say some silly things sometimes!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:44 pm 
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V-man,

First of all, you are a master of the straw man (as I suppose many good lawyers are :)). I never said Saruman would be doing silly "Legolas-style" impossible physical feats. Those are your words you are batting down, not mine.

Secondly, I think there's ample evidence to suggest (from the past two Hobbit films and LOTR) that Peter Jackson is capable of, and willing to, have characters do extraordinary things in their digital form. This includes Gandalf, who hopped around like a Mario character in Goblintown, and dropped from a great height to land on an eagle's back. Gandalf also fought in mid-air with a Balrog in FOTR, but that was mostly shot with McKellen, the actor, and it shows. It looks far more convincing than its equivalents in the Hobbit.

All I am saying, in this case, is that we are likely to see Saruman's digital double doing things that Christopher Lee never shot. They will not likely be Legolas-style, but I am almost certain that we'll see quite a bit of digital Saruman, and that it won't look that convincing. All the shots with digital doubles in AUJ and DOS looked very obviously artificial to me, and I don't think that will change.

And IMO, this is pretty reasonable speculation, given two films that have been chock full of of Peter Jackon's self-indulgent digitalia.

Will I enjoy this one, as I did DOS? Probably. But it still saddens me that Tolkien's works will not be translated into masterpieces of the silver screen for a long time to come. There are plenty of fun action films, with a little intelligence and depth, out there. I don't see what's so horrible about hoping for something more from adaptations of Tolkien. Aim-for-the-middle-Jackson was the wrong man for the job, IMO, no matter how much I like and respect him on a personal level.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:36 pm 
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Am I the only one who doesn't really have a problem with wizard-Fu? I mean, Tolkien tells you basically nothing about exactly how Gandalf was overpowered and captured. Some invention was necessary to show it on screen.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:43 pm 
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I didn't mind the Wizard-fu. It was rather visceral, and you could almost hear their old bones cracking on the hard stone. Most of the violence in the Hobbit films is disappointingly weightless and anodyne by comparison.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:33 pm 
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I also had no problem at all with the Wizard-fu.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:02 am 
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Neither did I. It gave me goosebumps, I remember.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:38 am 
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Confirmation from Billy Connolly that Dain is in, and movie SPOILERS regarding how his role plays out!

Billy Connolly: They turned me into the Wee Yin for my role in The Hobbit.. but I'm just glad I didn't die

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:10 am 
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Dain looks awesome!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:10 am 
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Uh...unfortunately, that photo they used is an old image from the Trading Card game, not what Dain will actually look like in Jackson's movie!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:36 pm 
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Not unfortunate, IMO. Though I don't expect Dain to look like I imagine him, I really didn't like the overwrought prosthetics of the LOTR dwarves, and the trading card Dain looks a lot like those.

Glad to hear that Dain's in. And also happy to hear about his role...

Billy Connolly is going to ham it up, but I can't wait!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:09 pm 
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I've never bought the "Dain has been cut in an 11th hour rewrite" rumors, but if they were true, would Connolly even know?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:33 pm 
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Didn't we see concept art of Dain a few days back, with a moustache that's shaped like Boar's horns? Or was that on Facebook I saw that?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:44 pm 
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I think you might be thinking of these images?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LpCyA3J7-5A/V ... 6554_o.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Q4NTbD5q5yg/V ... 7215_o.jpg

Personally, I like that a heck of lot more than the Trading Card image used in the article, but who knows how close it is to how he really will look in the film. We've seen plenty of concept art that proves completely different than the final version.

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