Bofur and Pigs and Frodo and Sam, etc.

Post by **Passdagas the Brown** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:28 am

I missed this little inside joke in DoS...

"Pigs?!" Bofur says, with some worry (and remembrance) in his voice.

Didn't get it until I saw "Waking Ned Devine," where Jimmy Nesbitt plays a pig farmer named "Pig Finn." The woman he's wooing won't marry him until he...gets rid of the pigs (namely because he always smells like them). Which he does, in the end.

Hopefully the commentaries (or Nesbitt himself) will confirm that this was intentional. I can't imagine that it wasn't!

Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:31 am

I'm sure it was intentional. Just as Sean Bean's "still Sharp" when Boromir pricked himself with the shard of Narsil was intentional.

However, Sam's "By rights, we shouldn't even be here" at Osgiliath probably was not intentional.

Post by **Passdagas the Brown** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:56 am

Or Bilbo's "I do believe the worst is behind us."

Post by **Gorthaur the Cruel** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:53 am

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:However, Sam's "By rights, we shouldn't even be here" at Osgiliath probably was not intentional. ;)

Well that's ruined it for me. :(

Post by **Pearly Di** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:30 pm

Gorthaur the Cruel wrote:
Voronwë the Faithful wrote:However, Sam's "By rights, we shouldn't even be here" at Osgiliath probably was not intentional.
Well that's ruined it for me.

Even if that line was intentional, it still couldn't redeem Sam's Osgiliath Speech for me.

Book Sam has such awesome moments. All of them far surpass Movie Sam's mawkish, 'hey here I go stealing the limelight from Frodo yet again' Osgiliating speech.

Whenever I and certain friends of mine had occasion to watch TTT (I'm talking about home viewings), we would shout in unison during that sequence, "Shut up, Sam!"

It was very cathartic.

There's a lot in the films I love

but that is one of the things on the 'fetch me a sick bucket' list.

Post by **Alatar** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:51 pm

Well, I was in London at the weekend seeing some shows, and guess who I met in the Two Brewers pub? Only Samwise Gamgee from the LotR Musical!

Lovely guy, and much more the Samwise I loved from the book than Sean Astin!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSH8b33wZcw

Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:06 pm

Very cool, Al!

Post by **Passdagas the Brown** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:22 pm

Or the Great Goblin's:

"Abominations, mutations, deviations. That's all you're gonna find down here!"

Post by **Passdagas the Brown** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:26 pm

Pearly Di wrote:
Gorthaur the Cruel wrote:
Voronwë the Faithful wrote:However, Sam's "By rights, we shouldn't even be here" at Osgiliath probably was not intentional.
Well that's ruined it for me.
Even if that line was intentional, it still couldn't redeem Sam's Osgiliath Speech for me.

Book Sam has such awesome moments. All of them far surpass Movie Sam's mawkish, 'hey here I go stealing the limelight from Frodo yet again' Osgiliating speech.

Whenever I and certain friends of mine had occasion to watch TTT (I'm talking about home viewings), we would shout in unison during that sequence, "Shut up, Sam!"

It was very cathartic.

There's a lot in the films I love but that is one of the things on the 'fetch me a sick bucket' list.

And frankly, that's what I think the Hobbit series generally avoids. That need to wrap things up with mawkish sentimentality and overwrought speechifying.

Post by **kzer_za** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:08 pm

I can definitely understand why people don't like Sam's speech, but somehow it works for me.

Post by **Sunsilver** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:31 pm

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:I'm sure it was intentional. Just as Sean Bean's "still Sharp" when Boromir pricked himself with the shard of Narsil was intentional.

Okay, that one went right by me! (Probably because I've never watched the series.)

Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:36 pm

I've never seen it either, and never heard of it before the LOTR films.

Post by **Smaug's voice** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:26 pm

kzer_za wrote:I
can definitely understand why people don't like Sam's speech, but
somehow it works for me.

And for me too.
In a way it makes TTT as a standalone film in itself. Abd I find nothing "off" about it.
I know I am in the minority here (probably of one) but I find Astin's performance excellent with a few exceptions. (he's my second most favorite hobbit from the films after you-can-guess-who)
Atleast for me, the scene doesn't feel forced. Neither the speech. Perhaps the only odd thing for me was Faramir's sudden decision change.

Post by **yovargas** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:34 pm

Smaug's voice wrote: Perhaps the only odd thing for me was Faramir's sudden decision change.

This might get me crucified but - if it wasn't for Faramir's odd, illogical change of heart, I would say that I love every single bit of the Osgilliath storyline. IMO it's damn brilliant and the whole sequence is amongst my favorites in all the movies. Asides from that final Faramir bit.

*...prepares fireproof suit...*

Post by **Smaug's voice** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:42 pm

It's really a bad deviation from the book, I think.

But as a film, it is really a great section. Particularly because of the conceptualization of Osgilliath and the color-grading.

Post by **kzer_za** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:39 pm

This might get me crucified but - if it wasn't for Faramir's odd, illogical change of heart, I would say that I love every single bit of the Osgilliath storyline. IMO it's damn brilliant and the whole sequence is amongst my favorites in all the movies. Asides from that final Faramir bit.

*...prepares fireproof suit...*

You're not alone, yovargas - I've always liked Ogiliath too, which made me pretty unpopular on one forum when the movie came out! The Nazgûl in front of Frodo is one of the most powerful and evocative scenes in the trilogy. Amazing visuals and audio there (I think even PtB has said he likes at least that little bit).

People sometimes say Frodo is "offering the ring", but it's pretty clear that's not really what's going on even if the end result would be the Nazgûl grabbing it - he's overwhelmingly tempted to use it, which is in fact what happens when he's around the Nazgûl in the book! Though PJ probably didn't need to do it quite so many times.

The scene as a whole is also an effective way to help transition from Saruman to Sauron as the villain and sets up Osgiliath in particular for its fall. And it provides a solid climax to Frodo and Sam's story that the book really didn't have without moving Shelob up, which would have done all sorts of crazy things with the chronology.

Of course, this does come at somewhat of a cost to Faramir's character...but the extended scenes (not only Sons of the Steward, but some key parts in RotK EE too) help him a lot. I'm still not fond of the brutality his men show to Gollum though. My father has never read the books and thinks Faramir's pretty noble and admirable, for what it's worth.

Post by **Smaug's voice** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:44 pm

Incidentally, my mother too thinks he is the most gentle one among the protagonists. She hasn't read the book yet.

Post by **narya** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:18 pm

I loved the Osgiliath part, too. In the depths of my depression, it resonated perfectly. Not sure I could put it into words, but it just felt right for me in that state of mind.

I still like it now, but in a much more detached way.

Post by **anthriel** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:40 pm

yovargas wrote:
Smaug's voice wrote: Perhaps the only odd thing for me was Faramir's sudden decision change.
This might get me crucified but - if it wasn't for Faramir's odd, illogical change of heart, I would say that I love every single bit of the Osgilliath storyline. IMO it's damn brilliant and the whole sequence is amongst my favorites in all the movies. Asides from that final Faramir bit.

*...prepares fireproof suit...*

I've always liked it, too.

Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:44 am

We're supposed to be talking about pigs here, folks. Stop Osgiliating the thread!