Forcing Sauron's Hand
I think Wampus has an excellent point here... maybe when you see the film "with the purity of unspoiled vison" (LOVE that KittyKat), this scene is a bit more confusing.
I did understand that the tomb was that of one of the Nazgûl, and I thought Gandalf's "if he ever had a name, it is lost when he became a servant of evil" (from memory) statement was quite evocative.
And even though I didn't much like AUJ, I must have paid sufficient attention to remember that White Council scene. It was a fairly good set up for this story line in this movie.
As for "forcing his hand"... I had an odd reaction to Gandalf's "fight" with the Necromancer/Sauron.
1. Hey, his staff is burned up! Didn't we see that staff in the "later" movies? Or wait... wasn't that a DIFFERENT staff we saw in LoTR? I remember thinking that Saruman's staff was quite a bit more "organized" than Gandalf's in the trilogy... Saruman's was sort of elegant, and Gandalf's looked like he had wrenched a small tree out by the roots. But in AUJ, Gandalf blows on the staff and it provides him light... when he entered Mirkwood, I think?... and HIS staff looked more "organized" than the one I saw in LoTR. Something I only thought about much later, when Gandalf's staff was burned.
It's a very minor point, but I think maybe Gandy's pretty staff got toasted, and he DID pull up a sapling for his second one. Maybe?
2. Did you guys get the feeling that by Gandalf "forcing" Sauron, he actually... made him stronger? More organized? MORE of a threat? Gandalf did okay at first, but either Gandy got tired, or Sauron gained strength.
The fact that Sauron was able to coalesce his form into something more "pure" did make me think that Gandalf's actions may have had someone of a negative effect on his purported goal of weakening Sauron.
I did understand that the tomb was that of one of the Nazgûl, and I thought Gandalf's "if he ever had a name, it is lost when he became a servant of evil" (from memory) statement was quite evocative.
And even though I didn't much like AUJ, I must have paid sufficient attention to remember that White Council scene. It was a fairly good set up for this story line in this movie.
As for "forcing his hand"... I had an odd reaction to Gandalf's "fight" with the Necromancer/Sauron.
1. Hey, his staff is burned up! Didn't we see that staff in the "later" movies? Or wait... wasn't that a DIFFERENT staff we saw in LoTR? I remember thinking that Saruman's staff was quite a bit more "organized" than Gandalf's in the trilogy... Saruman's was sort of elegant, and Gandalf's looked like he had wrenched a small tree out by the roots. But in AUJ, Gandalf blows on the staff and it provides him light... when he entered Mirkwood, I think?... and HIS staff looked more "organized" than the one I saw in LoTR. Something I only thought about much later, when Gandalf's staff was burned.
It's a very minor point, but I think maybe Gandy's pretty staff got toasted, and he DID pull up a sapling for his second one. Maybe?
2. Did you guys get the feeling that by Gandalf "forcing" Sauron, he actually... made him stronger? More organized? MORE of a threat? Gandalf did okay at first, but either Gandy got tired, or Sauron gained strength.
The fact that Sauron was able to coalesce his form into something more "pure" did make me think that Gandalf's actions may have had someone of a negative effect on his purported goal of weakening Sauron.
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Ooooo... I just found a thread here about Radagast's staff... I'll have to read up on what was written there... maybe that solves the riddle for me!
(And maybe I should read EVERYTHING before commenting on ANYTHING... sigh...)
(And maybe I should read EVERYTHING before commenting on ANYTHING... sigh...)
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Anthy, at the risk of spoiling the purity of your unspoiled vision (;)), Gandalf's staff in FOTR appears to be identical to Radagast's staff. So somehow, Gandalf is likely going to come away with Radagast's staff. Which leads to the obvious question: what happened to Radagast?
I love the scene between Gandalf and Sauron, but it makes the scene in the ROTK EE in which the Witchking breaks Gandalf the White's staff that much more ridiculous.
I love the scene between Gandalf and Sauron, but it makes the scene in the ROTK EE in which the Witchking breaks Gandalf the White's staff that much more ridiculous.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Passdagas the Brown
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Oh, no. I wrote "unspoiled VISON". Good grief. It was sure to happen, some day.Voronwë the Faithful wrote:Anthy, at the risk of spoiling the purity of your unspoiled vision (;)),
Gandalf's staff in FOTR appears to be identical to Radagast's staff. So somehow, Gandalf is likely going to come away with Radagast's staff. Which leads to the obvious question: what happened to Radagast?
That's what I was beginning to realize, in my oh-so-I'mnotreadingthisstuffaheadoftime way. Gandalf's staff IS different in LoTR than it is in this film (and certainly in AUJ, although I'm sure the reason I didn't notice there was my general tendency to not pay attention because I didn't like the movie
), and this sort of 'splains it. Hopefully Raddy just decided to retire from the wizarding gig altogether, and Gandalf picked the staff up at his yard sale. Hopefully.
I'm actually proud of myself for noticing that the staff was different, even without reading up ahead of time on such things. I often tend to overlook details, even when those details add a lot of interest. Probably a bad attitude issue, overall.
Totally agreed. I'm glad they didn't include that bit of extraneous silliness in the TE.I love the scene between Gandalf and Sauron, but it makes the scene in the ROTK EE in which the Witchking breaks Gandalf the White's staff that much more ridiculous.
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King