TH: Desolation of Smaug Extended Edition Anticipation Thread

[Passdagas the Brown]

Thanks for taking the time to post the relevant bits, Elen!

Some of it sounds great (especially as I am a sucker for flashbacks). But some of it sounds...I don't know...horrible?

-PtB

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P.S. I must say that despite it being completely non-canonical, and strange, I cannot wait to see the "men of the North" drag the Ringwraith into the tomb. IIRC, this would be the first time we are seeing anyone of the Arnorian people, aside from Aragorn. Should be a great and evocative scene, which I did not expect at all.

[sauronsfinger]

Thanks Elen for that update. You are our town crier, Paul Revere and information central aIl rolled into one. I went there and read what is on the EE and what is not. I cannot wait to see the Dol Goldur sequences as it sounds terrific. A bit down to hear we will nit get a dwarf led tour of Dale. But like the Stones sang - you can't always get what you want.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

This is interesting in light of a conversation that we had here that I remember well:

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New scenes that shed light upon why noone would help the wounded Kili in Laketown plus it's getting much clearer as why Bard is arrested are some of the Laketown new and extended scenes.There are much more of course from Laketown.

[Elentári]

My pleasure, PtB and SF! I, too, am bummed about the absence of the Dwarves travelling through Dale (as described in the Weta Chronicles) and lack of more Thranduil Also not particularly thrilled by more High Fells....and apparently there's no "Never venture East" which we saw in the DoS sneak peek event last year - nor any sign of the "Eagles" conversation, not that that is much of a surprise, I guess...

Yes, V I remember that conversation very well! The new stuff should indeed shed light... and apparently

Alfrid (Ryan Gage) is a very good actor btw.He shines in all the new Laketown scenes.

Apparently the added 25+ is all in the first 1hr 45m of the original movie.

More spoilers this morning, from DJU:

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The prologue is roughly 1 minute 50 seconds longer.
After Thorin says "I went looking, but found no sign of him" Gandalf now sighs and says "Thrain". Thorin accuses Gandalf of being like the rest and believing he is dead. Gandalf says he (Gandalf) wasn't at the Battle Of Moria, and Thorin says "No, But I was".

He then recounts new bits of Azanulbizar including Thain, how his father wouldn't let Azog take his son and that Azog would wipe out the line of Durin. He mentions Thrain led a charge to the Dimril Gate and never returned.

Then there is a quick montage of already seen bits of the battle and how Thorin searched the dead and didn't find his father. "Thrain is Gone, they told me!" "My Father was not among the dead!" it cuts back to the bit in the TE where Gandalf says "It's long since anything but rumour was heard of Thrain." "He still lives, I am sure" however now Gandalf just stares at Thorin for longer, before asking Thorin if Thrain had been given the Dwarven ring from Thror, and that he had it when he went 'missing'. Thorin seems unimpressed and then we are back at the bit where Gandalf gets his food.

***

I've noticed two removed scenes so far, one seems entirely deliberate and I can see why it was done, but the other one is a bit similar to the removed 10 second establishing shot in Goblin Town that was removed from the AUJ:EE, not entirely sure why it needed to be nixed.

The deliberate one first - is the scene of Beorn entering his house after changing back to human form and Bilbo spying him re enter. This has been cut, so it now goes from him transforming to the establishing shot of his horses, however this establishing shot then zooms out further and an ominous axe drops down and cuts some wood. The Giant bee then lands on Bilbo's nose and when he wakes up instead of all the Dwarves being at the dining table, they are all clambering to look out the window and worried at what is outside, this is all intercut with more ominous axe chops. So that's 15 seconds cut

However the extended intro of Beorn and the Dwarves is roughly a whopping 4mins 50seconds (30 seconds is old footage of Bilbo waking up) before it cuts back to the "You are the one they call Oakenshield" bit of Beorn dinner table.

The bit outside with Gandalf and Beorn discussing Azog and the High fells expand what was a 15 second scene of the Dwarves getting on Ponies up to 2min 50seconds scene. So an extra 2m 35s or so.

So Beorn is a little over 6 minutes 50 seconds longer.

[Elentári]

This explains a lot...

From Joe20 regarding the EE Appendices

I've only watched a couple so far but what stands out is the absolute disorganisation around the Smaug vs Dwarves scene. Its really, to be honest, disappointing. Disappointing in regards to how the three film split effected everything. This was probably my least favourite element of DOS. (Though I didn't really like much of the movie at all)

Jackson confesses to how, with just a 2 months before the film had to be completed he was shooting the actors on the green screen without any plan whatsoever. He was literally telling people to just react. He didn't know what would be in the shot, where it would fit in or if it would fit in.

He says he was just making it up as he went along, while pretending to appear as if he had any idea of what he was doing.

[Smaug's voice]

Quite ddisappointed by the list if scenes.
The Beorn bits sound wonderful! And... that's about it.
I did not want more of the DG storyline, less is more here.
No Dale. Mirkwood not as much extended as I'd expected.
And I don't like the wiki 's body bring dragged. A scene showing his spirit being imprisoned would've been more effective.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

From the comments I have seen, the Mirkwood scenes are the most extended, and benefit the most from the extension, so that seems to be an odd thing to be disappointed about. But to each his own.

[Smaug's voice]

I only read what is posted here and it was said that the stag scene is not that extended a scene. Besides that, there's only the enchanted river - Bombur scene.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

From Annatar598:

Mirkwood is quite extended and flows MUCH better than the theatrical.

It's extended 5-10 mins.

[Elentári]

Evidence has surfaced on Tumblr of yet another deleted scene involving Thranduil - it seems that Legolas did in fact go after Tauriel with Thranduil's knowledge:

http://thranduilsmirkwood.tumblr.com/po ... -been-kept

[Voronwë the Faithful]

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P.S. I must say that despite it being completely non-canonical, and strange, I cannot wait to see the "men of the North" drag the Ringwraith into the tomb. IIRC, this would be the first time we are seeing anyone of the Arnorian people, aside from Aragorn. Should be a great and evocative scene, which I did not expect at all.

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It (the flashback itself) is very short, and very non-canonical, and quite strange. That having been said, it really is quite evocative. More importantly, the scene with Beorn that it is imbedded in is great, and goes a ways towards further explaining Gandalf's decision to leave the company. Beorn in general is really improved by the extended material.

[Elentári]

This seems to be a pretty definitive list of the new material on the EE, from someone who has watched it twice!

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1. Quest for Erebor ** - There's a flashback during Thorin and Gandalf's conversation to the Battle of Azanulbizar (Battle of Moria as they refer to it in the film) from AUJ. It shows Thrain, Thorin's father, charging towards Azog after Thror's death and going out of Thorin's sight. He searches the dead bodies after the battle but finds no sign of him. There's also a brief discussion about the fate of Thror's ring (which he passed on to Thrain before the battle).

2. Queer Lodgings * - A completely new introduction to Beorn prior to the dinner scene. The Dwarves are all introduced and it's actually pretty funny in spots.

3. Gandalf and Beorn * - Before the company leave on the ponies, Gandalf and Beorn chat in private about the Necromancer and his connection to Azog. Beorn also mentions the dead being summoned from the High Fells, and there's a short flashback showing Men of the North burying The Witch-King in his tomb.

4. Mirkwood ** - Mirkwood is extended a bit to further show the delirium of the company in the forest. The main addition is the crossing of an enchanted river which puts Bombur to sleep (forcing the others to carry him). Also during this addition, a white stag shows up which Thorin shoots at but misses. Bilbo tells him this is bad luck but he scoffs at the idea.

5. The Master and Alfrid ** - Their introduction is extended at the end to show The Master eating actual Goat Bollocks while Alfrid agrees to a scheme to have Bard arrested.

6. The World of Men ** - There's an extended scene of the Dwarves sneaking into Laketown with Bard's help. The gaurds notice the dwarves and chase after them, but the company trips them and knocks them out. The townspeople play along while Bard distracts the Captain of the Gaurd allowing the Dwarves to sneak past. This is also where Thorin tells Bilbo that they are in "the world of men" per the trailer.

7. Prophecy of Hope * - The Master and Alfrid discuss the prophecy that the townspeople are talking about (the one that Bard repeats) prior to the Dwarves' arrest at the armory. Alfrid points out that these old prophecies give the people hope, and the Master listens intently to the idea.

8. Thrice Welcome ** - When the Dwarves are brought before the Master there's a short extension where Alfrid asks Thorin who can vouch for his character, not trusting his promises of shared wealth. Bilbo speaks up and gives a poignant defense of Thorin. This is actually my favorite addition.

9. Turned Away * - After Kili and the others are left behind they take him to the Master, who is walking into his mansion, and ask for help. He and Alfrid both turn the Dwarves down, leading to their asking of Bard for help after. This scene also features the Master's assertion that either "they will be rich or Smaug will dine on Dwarf for an evening" from the trailer.

10. Dol Guldur ** - Dol Guldur is massively extended to show Gandalf, after trying to undo the spell of concealment, running into and fighting a mad Thrain. He manages to get the upper hand and uses his magic to bring Thrain to his senses. There's a beatiful moment of reunion followed by Thrain remembering the Battle of Moria (there's another short flashback to show what happened). It's revealed that Azog took Thrain's ring (the last of the seven) by cutting off his finger. Gandalf then says they must leave and get Thrain out, but Thrain is too afraid and still under some sort of dark spell which gives him hallucinations. Gandalf tells him of Thorin going to reconquer Erebor, but Thrain is upset by this news. He says that Smaug and The One are in league and that Thorin should not enter the mountain. Finally we have Azog attacking Gandalf as in the TE, with Gandalf seeing the armies and managing a quick escape. Then you have Sauron showing up (like in the TE) but before facing off against Gandalf he pulls Thrain into his shadow and kills him. Just before this happens Thrain tells Gandalf to tell Thorin he loves him. Gandalf tell Thrain he can tell Thorin himself, but it's too late.

11. The Thrush ** - The last extended scene is an extra few seconds of Balin talking to Bilbo on the way to Erebor (just before they see the ruins of Dale). Bilbo sees the Thrush fly by him and sit on a rock.

Also clips are appearing on Youtube now, for those who can't hold out....<must...resist!>

[Passdagas the Brown]

The most disappointing thing about this is the omission of the dwarves in Dale. We even had promotional shots of this leading up to the release. I imagine PJ left it out because nothing of real significance happens there, but it would have been a great way of building up the tension as they head toward the mountain - a stark reminder of what the dragon is capable of.

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I'm also not thrilled about another chase scene...this time in Laketown. PJ looooves his chase scenes.

Le sigh...

Otherwise, I'm thrilled. Particularly happy about more dwarf flashback material.

Flashbacks put meat on the bone of PJ's thinly-sketched world, and they're the most Tolkienian aspect of his films, IMO.

[Passdagas the Brown]

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Just saw the "Men of the North" flashback, and loved it.

Like something straight out of the FOTR prologue. This is how you do adaptation, without being slavishly literal. Capture the essence and spirit of Tolkien, not just the facts.

ETA:

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Though the Thrain flashback in the prologue is very poorly done, IMO. Not sure why there's such a huge pendulum swing in quality with PJ's films. From awesome to awful in the blink of an eye!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Best low humor line in the films:

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Bard to a guard: "I know your wife as well as everyone else does."

Snert.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

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As for Dol Guldur, my tentative opinion is that I like it better with no Thrain. But I reserve the right to change that opinion. The scenes that are best served by the extended scenes are Beorn and Laketown. I like the extension of Mirkwood, but not as much as I hoped. I agree with PtB about both the Men of the North flashback and the Thrain flashback. Really, I think I do without Thrain altogether.

[Elentári]

Hidden text.

Just saw the "Men of the North" flashback, and loved it.

Like something straight out of the FOTR prologue. This is how you do adaptation, without being slavishly literal. Capture the essence and spirit of Tolkien, not just the facts.

Shouldn't that read " not EVEN the facts" in this case?

Sorry, but as much as I love the reference to the Dúnedain, this complete fabrication really does not endear me to the scriptwriting team.

[Elentári]

The most disappointing thing about this is the omission of the dwarves in Dale. We even had promotional shots of this leading up to the release. I imagine PJ left it out because nothing of real significance happens there, but it would have been a great way of building up the tension as they head toward the mountain - a stark reminder of what the dragon is capable of.

There is speculation elsewhere that one of the reasons the Dale material is cut is because it may have featured Fili, Kili, Oin and Bofur before the decision to have Kili injured, and split the party in Lake-town... <shrug>

One can only hope we will get the poignant scenes of the desolated city in BotFA, from Thranduil's POV, as hinted at in the teaser.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Loved it. A much stronger film, with a better pace, more Bilbo, more dwarves, and more set up

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(the prophecy, the thrush, etc).


I didn't like the initial Thrain flashback in the prologue, but really liked the Thrain in Dol Guldur stuff. It was both genuinely scary at first, and then touching. And horrible how swiftly he was destroyed by Sauron. The actor is very good, IMO. And I enjoyed the transition from his sword to Thorin's plunging into the ground.

Loved to see the stag and the extra thrush material. It's these naturalistic elements of the mythology that I'll miss in BOFA, especially if they cut out the ravens. Didn't care for all the extra hallucination stuff in Mirkwood. Went on for far too long, and was awfully redundant.

The stuff in Laketown (minus the chase scene and the over-extended ball joke, which were unnecessary) was great - including Bilbo's very touching defense of Bilbo. Alfrid was solid, as was the Master, and there were some beautiful shots in there. And setting up the significance of the prophecy, and the people's desire for the old times, was an essential scene.

And Beorn! Yes, more Beorn. Gorgeous location, and some genuinely funny stuff from Gandalf, Bilbo and Bofur. And despite the heresy, I loved seeing the Men of the North in the High Fells.

And is it me, or did they retouch the Dol Guldur scenes? There was a LOTR-esque graininess to it that I responded well to.

In any event, I like this film more than the theatrical. And it's definitely my favorite of the five.

[Dave_LF]

So it's out, then? Which venues? Is it possible to get a UV code yet?