The Hall of Fire DoS Review Thread

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I doubt it will be that much. I'm hoping for 20 minutes.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Has there been some recent evidence to suggest that?

The main reason I believe there will be significantly more than there was for the AUJ EE, is that in AUJ, there were no major sequences added.

This time around, we have heard from Armitage that some substantial scenes were shot in a ruined Dale and that the Thrain material will likely be in the EE, there is evidence of a lot of missing Mirkwood and Master of Laketown material, we have heard from Freeman that the dwarf introduction scene with Beorn was filmed and likely to be in the EE (though he doesn't know), etc, and then when you add the likelihood of "extended" scenes here and there, as we got with AUJ, you start getting up there in running time.

With AUJ, there really did not seem to be a significant amount of material missing from the TE, and interviews with the cast and crew seemed to confirm that...

I'm still betting on an extra half hour, unless I'm missing something...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

No, just my way of keeping expectations down.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Ah, yes. A wise strategy (and a familiar one).

I'd add one other thing, though, in opposition to your strategy. PJ and crew probably noted that the fan base was a little disappointed in the relatively small amount of material in the AUJ EE. Unless Warner Bros. is refusing to help fund the development of a longer cut, I'm quite certain this will be quite a hefty EE.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

You've nailed the source of my pessimism.

On the other hand, it certainly is possible that the reason why there was so little addition to AUJ is that the film was already so extended as a result of ending so much earlier than originally planned (how long does the time from the end of AUJ at the Carrock to the original planned ending after the barrels?).

[Passdagas the Brown]

Yes, though as a lawyer, you'll note that there's actually no evidence to support the assertion that Warner Bros. is primarily responsible for the small amount of material in the AUJ EE...

That's pure fan speculation, based on a perception (perhaps legitimate) that WB is a bit stingy...

Occam's Razor suggests that the reason might be simpler - PJ didn't have much more material to use for AUJ. Indeed, there is little evidence from the vlogs or interviews that other substantial scenes were shot for it.

There are only two things that I know were shot and didn't make it into the EE. Thorin telling Bilbo about his childhood (an extension of the "Thorin may go mad" scene in Rivendell, which I believe was cut because of the extreme implausibility of Thorin confiding in Bilbo at that stage of the journey) and an alleged scene between Thorin and Fili sometime during the warg chase, which I believe was omitted when they added the Radagast-warg chase sequence.

And that's it. AUJ was arguably far too padded, while DOS suffers the opposite problem. Frankly, I'm surprised we even got 13 minutes out of the AUJ EE!

[Passdagas the Brown]

According to Rateliff, early drafts of the Hobbit had Balin accompanying Bilbo into the mountain.

Looks like PJ and crew might have been aware of that, and used it as a justification for making at least one of the dwarves not seem to be a coward...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

There are a number of places where I thought that they might have been influenced by reading Rateliff's book. We know from the EE appendices that Armitage at least has read it (not only did they show the books on his bookshelf, but he talked intelligently about it).

[Dave_LF]

I don't think they needed Rateliff for that; the final draft of the book has Balin behaving much the way he does in the film:

"[Bilbo] did not expect a chorus of volunteers, so he was not disappointed. Fili and Kili looked uncomfortable and stood on one leg, but the others made no pretense of offering--except old Balin, the lookout man, who was rather fond of the hobbit. He said he would come inside at least, and perhaps a bit of the way too, ready to call for help if necessary.
...
After a while Balin bade Bilbo "Good luck!" and stopped where he could still see the faint outline of the door, and by a trick of the echoes of the tunnel hear the rustle of the whispering voices of the others just outside."

[Passdagas the Brown]

Good point. But I wouldn't be surprised if the writers occasionally used Rateliff to justify their deviations. You know, just to make themselves feel better.

And I have to say that Armitage and Pace have been absolute gems in terms of their understanding of the source material.

[Elentári]

Another reason we got less added back in to the AUJ EE is the constant rearranging of the storyline with regards to the Thrain and DG subplots, and the High Fells almost certainly should be been inserted into its original place after the Dwarves leave Rivendell. After all, that sequence was first revealed at Comic-Con in 2012 but held over (and revised) for DoS.

[Sunsilver]

Okay, late to the discussion here. I finally saw it last night!

First off, I definitely don't like the 3D. Parts of it just look SO fake, and actions scenes are so confusing to my eyes that I have a very hard time following them and just want to look away.

As I like to watch films using closed captioning, the 3D is tiring to my eyes, too, because I am constantly changing my focus from the closed captioning screen to the big screen and back, and the 3D forces my eyes to work even harder, with the changing depths of the movie action.

The only 3 D film I've seen so far that was pretty much seamless was Avatar. It was breathtaking!

As for the Hobbit and DoS, not so much. Scenes shot from a distance with characters walking often look like cardboard cutouts. The scene with Gandalf and Thorin in the Prancing Pony didn't look right either. When the focus was on Thorin, Gandalf was just a meaningless blurr.

Throughout the film, there were moments when things like this would yank me out of suspension of disbelief, and annoy me.

Let's get rid of the other annoying things...

P.J. at his worst: the chase scene through Erebor with Smaug and the dwarves, and also parts of the barrel riding scene (Legolas, especially). The most eye-rolling moment was Thorin surfing the river of molten gold, and not being burned to a crisp!

But we've come to expect this of P.J. He just doesn't seem to know where to draw the line. At least none of it was nearly as bad as the Goblintown scene in AUJ! So, I am grateful for small mercies....

I had no problems with the addition of Tauriel, or the healing scene. It was very well done, and if you didn't know it was a departure from the book, you probably wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. Still, I'm rolling my eyes, and thinking, "Did P.J. REALLY have to add a romance just for the sake of HAVING a romance?? Is it just not possible to make a film WITHOUT one?"

Orlando handles his role very well, as did Tauriel. I'm not a swooner generally, but he certainly is nice to look at...

The Elf King looked so much like Haldir, I thought it WAS Haldir (or at least the same actor) at first.

Smaug was very well done. My favourite movie dragon was the one voiced by Sean Connery in DragonHeart, and I think they leaned very heavily on that movie for the head, voice and facial movements of the dragon. He even has that sarcastic tone to his voice that Connery does so well in DragonHeart. I didn't like the dragon's wings, though. I think a dragon's wings should be more firmly attached to the body to give more lift. I prefer to see them more like a bird or a bats' wings. Anyway, very well done, and I liked the way the dragon slithers through his hoard with such menacing speed.

Picture from DragonHeart:

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2839186944/ ... tt_pv_md_1

There were some breathtaking moments. The Hall of the Kings wasn't quite as impressive as our first view of the dwarf halls in the mines of Moria, but it was definitely right up there. Bilbo climbing up into the trees in Mirkwood was beautiful, but the so-obvious-CGI butterflies spoiled it for me.

Mirkwood was extremely well done as a set, though. I am an avid gardener, and have university level training in botany. I often spot things in woodland scenes that make me think, "that vegetation is totally WRONG!" That didn't happen in Mirkwood. Well, except for the oak leaves on the tree Bilbo climbed. They were obviously fake.

The halls of the wood elves were also very well done. I wasn't expecting anything so beautiful, from the way they are described in the book. But again. P.J. captures their love for beauty in the architecture.

I loved how the dragon hoard emulated Tolkien's picture of Smaug and Bilbo.

Beorn was well done. I have no complaints about how that was handled. Even in his more human form, he exudes menace and anger.


Gandalf continues to grow on me as a character. I really wish the old gent would win an academy award for his acting, but alas, it's very doubtful that will happen. Richard Armitage does an excellent job of rousing the people of Laketown with his speech, and continues to deliver a very solid performance. Bard (Luke Evans) does some fine acting as well.

And, of course, Bilbo continues to surprise the heck out of everyone...

The cliffhanger ending made me groan in disappointment, but my body wasn't so unhappy about it. I was seriously starting to squirm during the last 20 minutes of the film. They were right not to test the audience's tolerance by making it any longer.

[Sunsilver]

Whoops! Double post!

[Passdagas the Brown]

Great review!

But Lee Pace (Thranduil) looks absolutely nothing like the guy who played Haldir...The only thing they seem to have in common is blonde hair...

[Sunsilver]

Well, he must have taken acting lessons from him. He mimicked Haldir's snobbish, regal demeanour perfectly!

Once I saw him without the crown, I realized my error...

[Túrin Turambar]

I had to giggle at this sentence from the Irish Times review of the Wolf of Wall Street:

At times, the film seems almost Hobbitian in its inability to finish a scene that is already well past its natural lifespan.

At the very least, DoS seems to have given us a new word to use when describing literature and film...

[Jude]

I just realized something during a rewatch: orcs at this period are supposed to be useless in sunlight - this was decades before the Uruk-Hai.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Yes, but these are the CGI-Hai, and have absolutely no physical limitations.

[Smaug's voice]

That's strange coming from PtB.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Porquoi?