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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:13 pm 
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Could be.... ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:05 am 
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I thought it was pretty clear at the end of AUJ, and certainly at the start of DoS, that Gandalf had at least some inkling of what had happened in the tunnels...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:22 am 
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Dave_LF wrote:
I thought it was pretty clear at the end of AUJ, and certainly at the start of DoS, that Gandalf had at least some inkling of what had happened in the tunnels...


Yes, I think when he said "what did you find" he thought he knew what it was. Of course the irony is that he was wrong. It wasn't a "magic ring". It was the One Ring.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:57 am 
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Why on earth should Gandalf possibly be able to guess that Bilbo found a magic ring in the Goblin Tunnels - something, yes, Bilbo tells him that much, but are magic rings lying around in tunnels all the time???? Gandalf is not with the Company in DoS when Bilbo uses his invisibility, so we're supposed to believe he makes the connection when Bilbo assures him in Dale that he can reach Thorin without being seen?

Sorry, too much of a leap there!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:12 pm 
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Well, Gandalf would know about Bilbo's deeds while he was gone from the other dwarves of course. I'd like to think Gandalf can guess about the invisibility as much given the nature of Bilbo's assistance in his absence (slipping out of sight when captured then suddenly reappearing out of nowhere, getting out from the fave of a live dragon etc.).
As for the object to be a Ring, I think Gandalf would've seen him fingering something in his pocket (near the end of AUJ or beginning of DoS). So a small object which confers invisibility.
Magic Rings have a high chance.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:26 pm 
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Elentári wrote:
Why on earth should Gandalf possibly be able to guess that Bilbo found a magic ring in the Goblin Tunnels - something, yes, Bilbo tells him that much, but are magic rings lying around in tunnels all the time???? Gandalf is not with the Company in DoS when Bilbo uses his invisibility, so we're supposed to believe he makes the connection when Bilbo assures him in Dale that he can reach Thorin without being seen?

Sorry, too much of a leap there!


It's straight out of the book, so if you have a problem with it, your problem is with Tolkien, not Jackson.

Quote:
"What did I tell you?" said Gandalf laughing. "Mr. Baggins has more about him than you guess." He gave Bilbo a queer look from under his bushy eyebrows, as he said this, and the hobbit wondered if he guessed at the part of his tale that he had left out.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:50 pm 
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Gandalf, as he puts it himself, is "professionally interested" in magic rings. And he's a wizard. It would be cheating to wave away any and all logical problems by appealing to that second fact, but in this case I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine that he can pick up on little things that ordinary people wouldn't notice and put two and two together. Except when it comes to figuring out which ring it is :) (yes, in the book too).


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:56 pm 
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I think "he's a wizard" is justification enough for him knowing.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:10 pm 
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Why would Gandalf make the connection between invisibility and a magic ring? It seems to be only a trait of the One Ring.

After all, he himself is wearing one of the Three, and he knows who wear the other two. None of them are invisible.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:18 pm 
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Smaug'sVoice wrote:
Well, Gandalf would know about Bilbo's deeds while he was gone from the other dwarves of course. I'd like to think Gandalf can guess about the invisibility as much given the nature of Bilbo's assistance in his absence (slipping out of sight when captured then suddenly reappearing out of nowhere, getting out from the fave of a live dragon etc.).
As for the object to be a Ring, I think Gandalf would've seen him fingering something in his pocket (near the end of AUJ or beginning of DoS). So a small object which confers invisibility.
Magic Rings have a high chance.


Fair enough, but the thing I object to, I guess, is how Jackson has Gandalf say that he "knew all along" that Bilbo had found a magic ring. Is the inference really that Gandalf guessed everything from Bilbo fiddling with his pocket during the "finding something" conversation at the edge of Mirkwood? I would rather believe it was a gradual process worked out, as you say, from hearing about Bilbo's escapades from the other Dwarves afterwards- which, of course we don't get on screen!

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Last edited by Elentári on Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:19 pm 
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Jude wrote:
Why would Gandalf make the connection between invisibility and a magic ring? It seems to be only a trait of the One Ring.

After all, he himself is wearing one of the Three, and he knows who wear the other two. None of them are invisible.



Because the story wouldn't be as interesting if he'd figured it out which ring it was that soon. :wooper:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:26 pm 
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Jude wrote:
Why would Gandalf make the connection between invisibility and a magic ring? It seems to be only a trait of the One Ring.

After all, he himself is wearing one of the Three, and he knows who wear the other two. None of them are invisible.


They aren't minor mortals either (even the One didn't make Sauron invisible, or Bombadil). I always took degree of invisibility to be a kind of visual indication of the power the ring in question had to make its bearer "fade." As such, in my imagining at least, nearly any magic ring would impose invisibility on someone like Bilbo.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 4:47 pm 
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This is partly a product of the difference between The Hobbit and LOTR. The Hobbit (even after Riddles in the Dark was updated to bring it more in line with LOTR), comes out of a fairy tale tradition in in which magic rings that make the wearer invisible are common. As the text states:

Quote:
It seemed that the ring he had was a magic ring: it made you invisible! He had heard of such things, of course, in old old tales; but it was hard to believe that he really had found one, by accident.


In terms of the adaptation, I would say that this is something that falls in the borderland of Jackson and friends attempt to bridge the gulf between adapting The Hobbit and adapting the "Quest for Erebor" part of the full legedarium.

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