Beorn

[Passdagas the Brown]

This has to be a twilight zone of some sort.

Obviously, I didn't berate you for not liking my humor. Nowhere did I insist that you appreciate it. I merely called into question your need to repeatedly be insulting about something so subjective. This is the post that, I believe, caused this conversation to spiral into nastiness:

The problem here is that the continued attempts to flog a dead horse are all based on a really weak premise, namely that Beorn looks like Jon Bon Jovi, which he doesn't. That's the reason I don't find it funny, not because anyone is offended.

So, you don't find it funny, and YOU don't believe Beorn looks at all like Jon Bon Jovi. Great. Excellent. Fanfare. But why continue to express that opinion? Are you on a crusade to suppress forms of humor that you don't appreciate?

And you don't stand on moral high ground here, so please refrain from commanding me to "back off." I will back off when I find it appropriate (or when Voronwë tells me to, since it's his site!)

I had no idea there was such an undercurrent of unfriendliness here, to be honest. But I should have realized this when you went on an insulting tirade about how comparing elements of AUJ to a video game was "stupid, etc, etc," before bothering to ask if some of us have had much experience with games (which I have). If you want to talk about a dead horse, you beat that one down to the bone. And insulted quite a few people in the process.

My advice would be to live and let live. As long as we're not being hurtful to each other, there's room for all kinds of discourse. Including all kinds of humor.

There was zero "drama" in this thread until you introduced it. The thread now resembles some sort of awful Tolkien fandom reality show, and I feel ridiculous for having participated in it.

[Alatar]

You are right to feel ridiculous.

I'm done here.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Well, I have no idea what to say, so here's a rabbit with a pancake on its head:

http://contenthedgehog.blogspot.com/201 ... of-me.html

[yovargas]

I concur with the pancake rabbit.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Pancake rabbit very wise. Make world peace.

And look, there's an emoticon for it!

link

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I think it would be helpful for everyone to move on. There is plenty of "blame" to go around, of which I accept my share, and I don't think it would be particularly helpful for anyone to keep pursuing this.

[Dave_LF]

If we get pancake rabbit out of the deal, it will all have been worth it.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Agreed, Dave. Perhaps if we get in another argument, we'll get waffle rabbit as well? Or better yet, the "beating a dead horse" emoticon?

But in all seriousness, I agree with Voronwë. My apologies for contributing to the snark and drama, and my apologies to anyone I may have offended, including Alatar (and Voronwë).

:bunny:

Update: Wait, V. How did you get it to work?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Sekret powahs!

Or, I just put image tags around the url for the gif.

But I might have to look into adding it to the list of smileys.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Oh yes. If we get a pancake rabbit added to the smileys list, this will be a perfect example of how good can be made of a bad situation. A rabbit with a pancake on its head rising from the ashes. The phoenix will soon be out of a job.

[WampusCat]

If a rabbit with a pancake on its head suddenly is worked into the remaining Hobbit movies, I will blame all of you for giving PJ the idea.

[Frelga]

Thanks to the magic of the Internet I now know that the rabbit's name was Oolong, and that it's actually a dorayaki balanced on its head.

This is perfectly relevant to the thread about Beorn, who after all used domestic animals to bring food to his table.

[Impenitent]

1. I would be grateful for the pancake bunny emoticon.

2. I am grateful to Frelgita for the bunny backstory.

3. I am taken aback by Beorn's stylised facial hair in that pic, which does not strike me as bear-like at all. I hope very much that he doesn't look like this in the film. Heavy beard and heavy eyebrows would seem more like it to me. This is very...manicured. Just doesn't do it for me.

[Alatar]

Honestly, he doesn't look like the Beorn of my imagination either, but I can understand the choice facing PJ. He started out with the following list of characters:

13 Dwarves, Bilbo, Gandalf, Beorn, Elrond, Bard and the Elvenking.

That's pretty much the entire cast of the Hobbit before adding anything in.

Of those 19 characters, 15 are specifically described as having beards. We know how much trouble they went to in designing the Dwarves to give them unique looks. Were they really likely to give us a generic Hagrid lookalike for Beorn? Another long haired bearded guy, only this time tall instead of short? (But not like Gandalf). PJ made it clear he wanted recognisable silhouettes for all the Dwarves. Looks to me like he is extending that to all characters. I can't say I agree with all his choices, but I think I can understand his reasoning and approach. I don't believe he's changing the look just because he can, or because he thinks he's smarter than Tolkien. I think he has a valid concern about the representation of these multiple bearded chaps in a visual medium.

[Impenitent]

Food for thought. I simply don't think in cinematic terms, but as you've laid it out, that makes sense.

Doesn't mean I won't grumble about it when I see it on screen for the first time. Or the second...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

It definitely is not the Beorn of my imagination, but like Al I can understand the reasons for why they went with a different look. I am more concerned with whether the character in the film stays true to the spirit of the character in the book. Needless to say, that remains to be seen.

[Passdagas the Brown]

I think Alatar's reasoning is likely to be that of PJ's. And I understand and appreciate the need for distinctive styles and strong silhouettes. Indeed, unlike most, I find Azog's silhouette to be striking, and appreciate him visually even if I find his character to be poorly drawn in a narrative sense.

However, there are infinite ways to distinguish characters, and a number of the dwarven ones, and Beorn, seem uninspired.

You can give a dwarf a helmet, or give the silent one (Bifur) one of those cool dwarven war masks Tolkien wrote about. Or you can give them all substantial beards, but vary their styles greatly. Dramatically different wardrobes would also work. With Beorn, PJ could have gone with a long black beard because apart from Bifur, NONE of the dwarves have long black beards! I would have even accepted spiky Pictish hair if the beard was in tact. He could also have gone for a wilder look. As it stands, he looks far too manicured, and this would seem to contradict his character. I mean, does he get up every morning and shave his upper lip and chin? Is that a Beornish thing to do?

In short, it's not that he doesn't fit the book description per se. It's that he doesn't seem to fit the description of a woodsman skin-changer.

IMO, as with Dwalin and Bifur and Nori and Bombur, this is a case of an overdesigned character, where his place in the story has been submerged by overkill on creating a distinct look.

Honestly, I think this is an example of PJ trying to take lessons from GDT, but not quite getting it. Would have been better off just sticking to his own aesthetic.

[eborr]

Have n't been around much recently, good to see nothing has changed, three pages of arguments about Beorns facial hair, or lack of it.

Deep joy

[eborr]

Have n't been around much recently, good to see nothing has changed, three pages of arguments about Beorns facial hair, or lack of it.

Deep joy

[Alatar]

Aha! Yes indeed. To be honest I got so frustrated with the constant negativity on TORC during the LotR years that I stopped visiting until after the movies were finished. I would probably have done the same here except, well, I don't really visit here specifically to discuss the movies. Its just something I do while I'm hanging out with my buddies.

To be clear, I'm not saying nobody has the right to moan or complain about what they dislike. But I reserve the right to moan and complain about their moaning and complaining! Fair's fair.