Where will it end?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

One of the biggest question marks is where the split will be between DoS and TaBA. Most specifically, will Smaug's demise by in the next film, or be saved for the beginning of the third. I go back and forth. I am curious to know what folks think, both as their opinion of where the split should be, and where it ultimately will be.

[sinister71]

One of the biggest question marks is where the split will be between DoS and TaBA. Most specifically, will Smaug's demise by in the next film, or be saved for the beginning of the third. I go back and forth. I am curious to know what folks think, both as their opinion of where the split should be, and where it ultimately will be.

I'm hoping that they keep Smaug and Laketown for the beginning of TABA. I think killing off what is supposed to be the biggest thing in the Hobbit in the second film would just be lackluster IMO.

I think the film will end with Smaug confronting the dwarfs and leaving to deal with the lake men for helping them. Leaving us with a big unknown about where Smaug is. Or maybe that is wishful thinking

[Lalaith]

I agree. I think they'll save his death till the final film. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they delay it somehow to the very end of the 3rd film.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I (currently) disagree. I think the ending of film two will be a huge action set with the dragon attacking Laketown and finally meeting his demise. Followed by a brief scene showing the building tension that leads to the BoFA.

[Passdagas the Brown]

It's not how I would do it, but I think TABA will be all BoFA. It's going to be a dwarf-man-elf-goblin-Dol Guldur war movie. If done well, it could be great. But...

[sinister71]

I (currently) disagree. I think the ending of film two will be a huge action set with the dragon attacking Laketown and finally meeting his demise. Followed by a brief scene showing the building tension that leads to the BoFA.

I'm hoping the big action set piece of the end of film 2 will be the DolGuldur conclusion. ending the majority of that subplot. The sooner were done with the Necromancer and DolGuldur the better IMO

It's not how I would do it, but I think TABA will be all BoFA. It's going to be a dwarf-man-elf-goblin-Dol Duldur war movie. If done well, it could be great. But...

That really isn't anything I'm interested in seeing. One big long war film just doesn't interest me at all. I like the character moments and a good film needs those. Which if TABA is all battles for the first 3/4 and then the journey home at the end that IMO would be awful. They need to pace out the big set pieces since they are stretching these films super thin.

I would say Smaug and Laketown near the beginning of TABA then we have some calm before the storm with the dwarfs alone in Erebor, then the build up to the BO5A with the men and elves approaching the mountain on the brink of war, then a small lull as Bilbo sneaks out the arkenstone to Bard, then just when we think War is coming Gandalf reappears to stop them, then the BO5A happens, then we wind down with the journey home. Pace the film out so there is action thru out the whole 3rd film. Besides film 2 has plenty of action.

we have Beorn, Mirkwood, Spiders, captured by elves, barrels and amusement park water rides, DolGuldur, the high fells and Nazgûl tombs. All the while Azog chasing the dwarfs, and we get Laketown, the finding of the back door, Bilbo's meeting with Smaug and some sort of dwarf confrontation with Smaug. Plus any flash backs like Thrain in Moria / DolGuldur (where ever Gandalf finds him the first time) and all of legolas and Tauriel stuff. So there is plenty of action to fill up both films this way...

We'll have to see how it all pans out.

[Elentári]

I (currently) disagree. I think the ending of film two will be a huge action set with the dragon attacking Laketown and finally meeting his demise. Followed by a brief scene showing the building tension that leads to the BoFA.

Actually, I'm wondering if one of the reasons PJ decided the Dwarves needed a confrontation with Smaug (that is absent in the book) is to give him a better ending for DoS.

If this confrontation is to happen when Smaug smashes the mountainside, trapping Bilbo and the Dwarves inside the secret tunnel before flying off towards Laketown, then that would give a nice action set piece and allow the Laketown sequence to be carried over into TABA.

[Frelga]

From the thread title, I thought for a moment it was about the US government shutdown....

[Eldy]

I am 99% certain that Smaug will die in the second film. We know that PJ likes to have a big climax and at least a little bit of wrap-up rather than a sheer cliffhanger. A number of people have asked me what I think will be left for the third film if Smaug dies in the second, but it's worth noting that Smaug's death is not the climax of the story in the book either. There are five full chapters after his death; for comparison, AUJ was adapted from a mere six chapters.

I want to be clear that I wish they'd stuck with two films and I don't think that stretching the source material this thin is necessarily a good idea, but between the final five chapters and whatever is left in the White Council subplot, I'm sure PJ will have plenty of material left for TABA after Smaug's death.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I am leaning in that direction too, Eldorian. I think probably they will leave the resolution of the Dol Guldur storyline for the third film, and I suspect (and worry) that it will be closely integrated with the BoFA.

[sinister71]

Keeping DolGuldur to the third film is something I fear.Personally I find it a bad choice linking the Necromancer to the BO5A. The Hobbit should not be about Sauron which looks like it is the way that Jackson is leaning.

Horrible horrible idea but I suppose Jackson can't help himself... These films are all about him now instead of Tolkien's story anyways

Hopefully your wrong and DolGuldur ends in film 2 Eldo

I am leaning in that direction too, Eldorian. I think probably they will leave the resolution of the Dol Guldur storyline for the third film, and I suspect (and worry) that it will be closely integrated with the BoFA.

I don't think they can integrate them too close because Gandalf needs to make it from one place to the other BEFORE the BO5A starts. 2 places that aren't right around the corner from each other.


Looking at it by chapter though, which there are 19. We had 6 chapters in film 1,plus made up material, film 2 could be 7 chapters with about the same amount of made up material, and the final film be 6 chapters with a rather lengthy BO5A plus the journey home which isn't in detail in the book

[Passdagas the Brown]

It is really unclear at this point, isn't it? The closest indication so far that Smaug would die in DOS is the shot of Thorin, in the recent trailer, decked out in some regal armor (likely from the mountain horde). Though it is perfectly reasonable to speculate that the dwarves plunder the hoard at the very end of the film, before Smaug meets his demise, for me I think it suggests that Thorin will fully claim his kingship at the end of DOS, and that this will be a result of his knowledge that Smaug has bit the bullet. Furthermore, I cannot imagine that PJ will give us the death of Smaug at the beginning of TABA - which would have to be the case based on how far we know DOS will go (at least to the the plunder of the treasure by the dwarves). A full conclusion, in other words. But it will likely be obvious, based on the fleshed out politics of Thranduil's realm and Laketown, that the story will most certainly not end with Smaug's death.

Otherwise, the film will end with Smaug's departure, and some kind of confrontation between Thorin and Bilbo. A confrontation that did not occur in the book...

But again, that would suggest that Smaug will die very early in TABA, which would be a story-telling mistake, IMO.

Unless, of course, Smaug sticks around for TABA...Or, fear of fears, is resurrected by the Necromancer...