Fan Edits Discussions - The Hobbit: Barefoot Edition

For discussion of the upcoming films based on The Hobbit and related material, as well as previous films based on Tolkien's work
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Fan Edits Discussions - The Hobbit: Barefoot Edition

Post by Alatar »

Continuing on from the Lord of the Rings Fanedits, and particularly with The Hobbit being so long, it was only a matter of time before we got a purist cut of An Unexpected Journey.

This is the Barefoot edition by Menbailee and runs to 121mins

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/960 ... terbox.avi

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Brief Synopsis:
I set out to create a leaner, cleaner first part to The Hobbit. I do not demand purism relative to the book; instead, I insist on solid storytelling. Although I've cut most sequences that looked outright ridiculous, I kept Radagast and several other features that don't appear in the book or are more directed toward children, but which contribute to the story. Azog is gone, save only in an appearance as the angry orc in pursuit of Thorin & Company after the death of the Goblin King, the flashbacks are much condensed and differently placed, Frodo is gone, and we are left with a quicker and more magical return to Tolkien’s famous novel.

Intention:
As soon as I watched The Hobbit, it became my highest fanedit priority. As might be expected for a thin book expanded into three long films, An Unexpected Journey turned into a bloated and muddled mockery of the grandeur we remembered from Jackson's Lord of the Rings. The Hobbit got mired in set pieces, and it thematically undermined Bilbo's story with his violent involvement in the superfluous White Orc plotline. Meanwhile, scenes like The White Council or the Stone Giants provided something of a snoozer but advanced the plot not one whit.

I aimed to improve pacing, to attain greater thematic consistency with Tolkien’s Hobbit, and to remove some laborious absurdity, all while keeping the movie hopefully in continuity with the future films--or at least an edited version thereof.

Additional Notes:
I use the Blu-ray as my source. I am not encoding to Blu-ray at this time for reasons of file size and convenience. For the DVD release, I am offering both a version with hardcoded letterboxing (which is the standard on most DVDs), and also a version with the full 720x480 pixels filled, for which the aspect ratio can either be corrected manually, or simply allowed to fill the entire screen with a slight stretch to the image.

Other Sources:
None.

Special Thanks:
TM2YC for feedback, a beautiful cover, and a reworked matte that I used for the final shots of a more distant Erebor. Also my thirteen friends and my girlfriend who attended the screening party for the first completed workprint.

As before, the understanding here is that I am only sharing with people who already own the movies. From the Fanedit.info Legal Section:

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Note: The movies are in DivX format. Mac and PC versions of the codecs are available here for free:
http://www.divx.com/en

Also useful for downloading large files is Getright:
http://getright.com/[/quote]
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Post by yovargas »

I'll be very curious to hear people's opinions of it. I may try to watch it soon.........
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Post by Elentári »

Thanks, Al! :)

I'm certainly keen to see what a less bloated, Azog-less version could be like, though I think from looking at the cuts and changes listed this version may go too far for some - e.g., no White Council at all, and several cuts of conversations in Bag End...
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Post by yovargas »

I'm most interested in the "condensed and differently placed" flashbacks as I found them awkward and dull in the original. Plus less Stone Giants is more win!
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Post by yovargas »

Okay, so I know this isn't strictly legal but........

First comment: I'd stated before and the edit proves for me that I was right - the "prologue" makes far more sense, and vastly improves the pacing, if it happens at the dinner party. Now if we could get it narrated by Thorin as it should've been!

2nd comment: the idea of intercutting the dwarf song with scenes from Eredor is excellent.

3rd comment: LOL at the flat cut of the troll fight. I appreciate the intention but if you can't make it look at all natural...

4th comment: The cut of the Warg chase is surprisingly seamless. Very nice!

5th comment: 75 mins in - if you cut a bunch of stuff but have nothing to add, it can kinda feel like nothing's happening....

6th comment: Did the original Riddles in the Dark cut to goblin town at some point? The scene feels longer than I remember (that's a good thing:))0

7th comment: As much as I dislike the goblin king, it feels awkward to leave goblin town without a final confrontation with him. This may be the only cut I've dislike so far.

8th comment: WOW...Azog feels FAR more menacing and vile as a savage anonymous killer than he does with all that backstory garbage!

9th comment: YES YES YES to the new cut of the final battle! The danger feels so much more real and urgent when everyone's not dangling for an age waiting around for Bilbo to get his "hero" moment. LOVE this!


FINAL COMMENT: Oh yeah, this cut is a MAJOR improvement, IMO. A couple of the cuts are awkward (as one would expect from an amateur cut) and the draggy middle bit is still pretty draggy (since he can't replace the awful warg chase or stone giants with something better and this section needs something exciting to happen). But the first and last 30 minutes in particular are enormous improvements, from both a pacing standpoint and a basic good storytelling standpoint. It actually left me excited to see more unlike the original which mostly left me feeling exhausted!
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Post by Elentári »

Okay...Yov beat me to it! I would agree with pretty much most of his comments above. I didn't really understand the reasoning behind the cuts of some of the dialogue in Bag End, e.g.,
Redundant Thorin & Gandalf dialogue cut

Gandalf's exposition on Bilbo's thoroughly unremarkable childhood cut

Thorin & Balin's conversation after "it appears we have lost our
burglar" cut (shot of Thorin reversed so that he is look toward Bilbo instead of
away)
(quoted from the fanedit.org listing)

but was glad to see the Ori moments removed (burping, 'jacksie' etc)

Yes, the bad cut in the troll sequence was laughable...would rather the sequence had been left in if a seamless edit was impossible.

The cut from the Troll cave to the passageway to Rivendell OTOH, was seamless and worked remarkably well, IMO.

Loved the fact that Azog could be removed so seamlessly, and moving the Radagast DG segment to after Rivendell worked fairly well, apart from minor continuity problems like Bilbo still in a snot-covered jacket after Rivendell!

Amazingly, though somewhat sadly, I found the absence of the whole White Council segment not a problem at all!

The Stone Giants sequence was cut totally...it would have been nice if they could have kept a couple of shots of the giants in the distance somehow, but nothing at all is preferable to the rollercoaster ride...

Kind of agreed about the abrupt disappearance of the Goblin King, but wasn't really a problem for me...

The whole Frying Pan sequence was much improved on the whole, but the problem with removing the Azog subplot is that we now have no explanation for why these different looking Orcs are chasing the Company, and not the Goblins from the Misty Mountains. The Yazneg/Fimbul type Orcs aren't so bad, but Azog does stick out like a sore thumb! Also, Thorin's unconsciousness is another, larger continuity problem.


So, apart from a few minor quibbles, this fanedit has a thumbs up from me, too! :thumbsup:
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Post by yovargas »

Elentári wrote:I didn't really understand the reasoning behind the cuts of some of the dialogue in Bag End, e.g.,
Redundant Thorin & Gandalf dialogue cut

Gandalf's exposition on Bilbo's thoroughly unremarkable childhood cut

Thorin & Balin's conversation after "it appears we have lost our
burglar" cut (shot of Thorin reversed so that he is look toward Bilbo instead of
away)
(quoted from the fanedit.org listing)
I don't know his reasoning but I've felt the dinner party was a tad too long and maybe he agreed and wanted to cut out a few "inessentials".


I agree about Azog standing out in an odd way but that actually kinda worked for me. The way he shows up feels very mysterious and to me it made him feel far more threatening.

(On Thorin's unconsciousness, I just took it as him being more hurt from the fire than the others. A bit iffy but I didn't mind.)
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Post by Elentári »

yovargas wrote:
Elentári wrote:I didn't really understand the reasoning behind the cuts of some of the dialogue in Bag End, e.g.,
Redundant Thorin & Gandalf dialogue cut

Gandalf's exposition on Bilbo's thoroughly unremarkable childhood cut

Thorin & Balin's conversation after "it appears we have lost our
burglar" cut (shot of Thorin reversed so that he is look toward Bilbo instead of
away)
(quoted from the fanedit.org listing)
I don't know his reasoning but I've felt the dinner party was a tad too long and maybe he agreed and wanted to cut out a few "inessentials".
Maybe...but I know a lot of people really liked the "character" moment between Thorin and Balin.

I don't know if I just missed it, but was the bit with Bilbo snatching the doily off of one of the Dwarves (Bofur?) who was going to use it as a tea-towel, still in? It was part of the same sequence as the Croquet balls joke...

Only, if it has been cut, then Gandalf's later reference to Bilbo being more concerned about doilies no longer works... :scratch:

ETA: I would also like to add that cutting the White Council helps show up even more the lack of quality Bilbo time at Rivendell. The quiet moments like him looking at Narsil, and speaking with Elrond that will be on the EE would improve the fanedit pace-wise.

Likewise, the re-insertion of the market scene that we will hopefully get on the EE would make a big difference for the fanedit - with the cutting of the Frodo/Prologue, the fanedit literally jumps from old Bilbo writing his book to the"Good Morning" sequence and then to the night of the Unexpected Party. Having the market scene would give more time to establishing Bilbo, and flow nicely into the night scene.
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Post by yovargas »

Anybody else planning to give this a shot? I was hoping to hear more opinions/thoughts on this.
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Post by Jude »

I plan to... eventually... when I have a few hours to spare...


You might be waiting for a long time
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I started watching it this morning. I thought the beginning was okay, although I don't understand why they took out Balin and Dwalin's head butt (which I quite like, and think is a nice touch at showing the nature of the dwarves) but left in Gandalf's bumping his head (which I disliked in FOTR, and dislike even more in AUJ). But when young Bilbo says "The Lonely Mountain" and it transitions immediately to old Bilbo saying "Erebor" I had to turn it off, I was so off-put by it. I doubt I will turn back to it.
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Post by yovargas »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:I started watching it this morning. I thought the beginning was okay, although I don't understand why they took out Balin and Dwalin's head butt (which I quite like, and think is a nice touch at showing the nature of the dwarves) but left in Gandalf's bumping his head (which I disliked in FOTR, and dislike even more in AUJ). But when young Bilbo says "The Lonely Mountain" and it transitions immediately to old Bilbo saying "Erebor" I had to turn it off, I was so off-put by it. I doubt I will turn back to it.
Because the edit was too jarring? If so, I can understand that but obviously you can't blame the edit for it since they could only work with the pre-existing material. It's more of a "what I think would've worked better" blueprint than a proper final product though they mostly do a pretty good jovb. (Though there are few worse edits if you keep watching.)

If it's because you don't like the "prologue" at that spot than we'd be in strong disagreement as I found it helped the flow and pacing and emotion of the scene and film very significantly.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I wouldn't mind it if it were narrated by Thorin. Or Balin. Or Gandalf. Or anyone else who made some modicum of sense. But as it stands, it screams "you are watching a fan edit of someone else's work." At which point, there is no sense to continue watching it. For me at least.
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Post by Elentári »

Well, if you can't get past that then there is not point, as you say...

I guess I viewed it as an experiment to see if rearranging and cutting certain scenes would "improve" the overall dramatic experience for me, which on the whole, it did.

Though I'm sure having seen Jackson's original, my mind was able to ignore more subtle continuity problems. It would be interesting to get the reaction from someone who has only watched this fan edit....(and possibly didn't know the book either!)
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Post by Alatar »

That would actually be against the fair use policy these edits are released under. You're supposed to already own the material before you download.

I did, however, show my kids the Red Book edits before showing them the full movies since they were more "bite sized" and obviously I already owned multiple copies of the movies. They loved them. You can read my reports upthread. Unfortunately, they've all seen AUJ in the cinema so I can't get a "virgin" reaction now.
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Post by Elentári »

Alatar wrote:That would actually be against the fair use policy these edits are released under. You're supposed to already own the material before you download.
Well, naturally, but as you pointed out, you could show your download to someone who hasn't seen the movie. But I was simply musing on a strictly theoretical basis, that such a fan edit might be better judged by a "virgin" viewer...although the jarring edits would probably affect them even more than Voronwë! ;)
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I have to agree with Voronwë

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

While I agree with some of this fan's structural decision, the disjointedness and awkwardness of it all simply makes it unwatchable, IMO.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Nice to see that we agree on something! 8)
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Post by Passdagas the Brown »

Voronwë the Faithful wrote:Nice to see that we agree on something! 8)
Low probability events happen all the time! ;)
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Post by yovargas »

I do think it should be watched more as a "what could've been" experiment rather than a real movie. But even with the "proof of concept" nature of it as opposed to a professional final product, I think I was legitimately more caught up and engaged in this version than I was in the real one. Which just makes it clear to me that sadly, there is a much better movie forever trapped within AUJ.
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