Desolation of Smaug trailers (SPOILERS)

Post by **Elentári** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:44 am

I had no trouble with the HFR with regards to speeding up, I just didn't like the hyper-reality of the 48 fps, particularly combined with the 3D. I'd like to see 24 fps HFR just to be able to compare, but I really dislike the feeling of being "on stage," which I know is just a personal, subjective reaction...I simply prefer (because I'm used to it, I guess) being on the outside, viewing a story through a lens. That way the mystery and sense of believability is kind of preserved for me, I suppose. In other words, because I know that the story is played by actors, if I am there with them it breaks some kind of barrier for me. Obviously I appreciate that others' mileage may vary...<shrugs>

Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:18 am

Agreed, El.

But as Alatar said, 48fps is clearly superior "in every possible way."

So we're basically just...wrong!

Post by **Alatar** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:24 am

I'm referring to the technical specifications PdG. What can I say, I'm an engineer, that's how my head works. 48FPS is technically superior. End of.

Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:42 am

Sorry. I thought that by "every possible way" you meant more than just the technical.

In that context, I suppose you're right. More frames = technically superior, in a narrow sense.

But what about technical considerations of how an increased frame rate interacts with other aspects of a camera (lens size, shutter speed, etc), and other technical aspects of film-making?

Post by **Alatar** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:49 pm

I've yet to see any explanation that there is any negative effect, other than the perception of some who feel it vaguely "looks wrong". Technically, it is in every way superior. More frames, higher bitrate, more detail. The only possible negative I can see is that perhaps filmmakers haven't yet learned the palette, and are still making movies with a 24FPS sensibility.

Post by **yovargas** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:47 pm

I'd like to see 24 fps HFR just to be able to compare...

That's a contradiction in terms.

HFR means 48 FPS. (Or at least higher than 24.)

As I said earlier, more frames should make a clearly better picture just like more pixels do. Yet for whatever reason, extra frames don't just add more detail like pixels do, they also change the look of the picture in a really fundamental way. That's going to leave room for subjective preference even if it makes no logical sense.

Post by **yovargas** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:36 pm

I really dislike the feeling of being "on stage," which I know is just a personal, subjective reaction...I simply prefer (because I'm used to it, I guess) being on the outside, viewing a story through a lens.

This made me think of a possible explanation that I think could be at the root of this for some people, including myself. I think there may be an effect where it looks so real that it looks like they're literally in front of you - like they're actually in the same room you're in. But wait! - my brain says - how can Bilbo be in the same room as me and in Middle Earth at the same time - COGNITIVE DISSONANCE ALERT!! I think this makes a lot of sense from a brain-image-processing POV. Obviously I am not saying this is happening consciously but it may be the brain having a hard time reconciling "it's really in front of me" and "it's not really in front of me" and just concluding "this is wrong".

In that way, it could be something like the uncanny valley effect - something fake that starts approaching reality too closely and suddenly your brain rejects what it's seeing:

Post by **Elentári** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:54 pm

yovargas wrote:
I'd like to see 24 fps HFR just to be able to compare...
That's a contradiction in terms. HFR means 48 FPS. (Or at least higher than 24.)

Oops! I meant 2D HFR, of course, but I think most of you realized that!

Post by **Elentári** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:07 pm

yovargas wrote:
I really dislike the feeling of being "on stage," which I know is just a personal, subjective reaction...I simply prefer (because I'm used to it, I guess) being on the outside, viewing a story through a lens.
This made me think of a possible explanation that I think could be at the root of this for some people, including myself. I think there may be an effect where it looks so real that it looks like they're literally in front of you - like they're actually in the same room you're in. But wait! - my brain says - how can Bilbo be in the same room as me and in Middle Earth at the same time - COGNITIVE DISSONANCE ALERT!! I think this makes a lot of sense from a brain-image-processing POV. Obviously I am not saying this is happening consciously but it may be the brain having a hard time reconciling "it's really in front of me" and "it's not really in front of me" and just concluding "this is wrong".

In that way, it could be something like the uncanny valley effect - something fake that starts approaching reality too closely and suddenly your brain rejects what it's seeing:

You could be onto something there!

Another way of looking at it is like with a large-scale theatrical production, it's meant to be viewed at a distance, because of the exaggerated make-up necessary, and the stage-effects...whereas film is a far more intimate medium to begin with, and 3D HFR takes it a step further. As I said before, I particularly disliked the 3D effect because of the exaggerated depth of field...to me, it made a scene look more like a theatrical production because of that effect, with the different layers of field, such as trees and bushes going into the distances, which almost gave the impression of flats in the wings!

Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:39 pm

Very interesting, yov! And yes, Elen, I certainly understood that that was what you meant to say.

Post by **Smaug's voice** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:53 pm

yovargas, you make an excellent point! I really think that could be one of the real reasons of that.

Post by **Dave_LF** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:09 pm

It seems likely on the surface, but (a) why are Brits, reared on high(er) frame rate video, more or less immune to it? and (b) why do people complain specifically that it looks too fast? There is a clear uncanny chasm effect with no-quite-good-enough CG characters (Polar Express), and when that happens, people complain that they look creepy or unreal.

Post by **yovargas** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:05 am

Dave_LF wrote:It seems likely on the surface, but (a) why are Brits, reared on high(er) frame rate video, more or less immune to it?

Because they are a silly, silly people.

Post by **Passdagas the Brown** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:02 am

Dave_LF wrote:It seems likely on the surface, but (a) why are Brits, reared on high(er) frame rate video, more or less immune to it? and (b) why do people complain specifically that it looks too fast? There is a clear uncanny chasm effect with no-quite-good-enough CG characters (Polar Express), and when that happens, people complain that they look creepy or unreal.

Um, they eat and enjoy marmite. Case closed.

Post by **axordil** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:37 pm

I developed a taste for Marmite when I visited NZ. So maybe there's a vision-taste epigenetic expression involved. Where's River?

Post by **Dave_LF** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:51 am

Don't remember if this one was posted yet or not:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VQ6wkvDdyY#t=52

Post by **Passdagas the Brown** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:45 am

Dave_LF wrote:Don't remember if this one was posted yet or not:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VQ6wkvDdyY#t=52

Looks more tangible than PJ's version.

Post by **Dave_LF** » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:11 pm

And all the pieces fit together so well...

Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:51 pm

Two new TV spots:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiOZajpl ... e=youtu.be

and

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=60 ... =2&theater

Post by **Passdagas the Brown** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:58 pm

Looks good.

One advantage I have is that I don't hate Azog as much as a lot of Tolkien fans do. I may not like the way he is shoehorned into the story, but I like his design so much that I am generally willing to forgive hammy scenes he appears in.

That shot of him in Dol Guldur, for example, looks great.