Video games, Goblintown and the falling staircases of Moria

[Dave_LF]

I think the biggest difference is that there's a real sense of danger. They just got out of the intense cave troll fight, the Balrog is just behind them, and Gandalf will soon face it off. Even if the physics don't work, the stakes feel high and it fits the pacing of the movie.

Precisely. The physics errors in Moria at least exist in order to add tension, drama, and character moments. Goblintown has none of these; it's all about the kewlness.

[Alatar]

Actually, if I recall correctly from the directors commentary, the stairway sequence came about because PJ thought it would look cool.

[Dave_LF]

But if so, he or one of the other writers had the sense not to stop there.

[yovargas]

And it did look cool. But it also felt like a real moment in a real place with real tension.

[Alatar]

Honestly, I think it was the worst moment in the trilogy (at least until the skull avalanche was added to the EE of ROTK).

[yovargas]

Ew skull avalanche ew!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Honestly, I think it was the worst moment in the trilogy (at least until the skull avalanche was added to the EE of ROTK).

Honestly, there were quite a few bad moments in the trilogy. Which is why I find it strange that some people compare AUJ so unfavorably to to it. I continue to believe that AUJ compares favorably to all three LOTR films.

With regard to the discussion about the Goblintown sequence, one irony is that for all of Jackson's talk about wanting to use HFR to get people back in the theaters, I think the sequence works far better in the context of home viewing, where you can really focus on what is going on.

As for the videogame complaints, those mean nothing to me because I don't play videogames. To me, either it is good, or it isn't good. To me (and I emphasize that because I can only speak of my own impressions) the videogame complaints seem like an imprecise way of expressing peoples dissatisfaction. The impression that I have (and this of course might be completely wrong), is that people don't like it because they feel like they are supposed to not like it.

[Dave_LF]

Honestly, there were quite a few bad moments in the trilogy. Which is why I find it strange that some people compare AUJ so unfavorably to to it. I continue to believe that AUJ compares favorably to all three LOTR films.

I concur with that, though I think I would argue that Goblintown was the weakest action sequence (so far ).

[yovargas]

If you prefer, replace "feels like a video game" with "feels like an artificial, inorganic sequence of action scenes inserted solely to attempt to add adrenaline with little regards to any meaningful context within either the larger story or the tension the characters involved would actually be feeling". "Video game" is just easier to say.

[Beutlin]

If you prefer, replace "feels like a video game" with "feels like an artificial, inorganic sequence of action scenes inserted solely to attempt to add adrenaline with little regards to any meaningful context within either the larger story or the tension the characters involved would actually be feeling". "Video game" is just easier to say.

Equating video games with “artificial, inorganic sequence[s] of action scenes inserted solely to attempt to add adrenaline […]” is just not right; at least not in 2013.

I would concur that the scene feels slightly inorganic, that it lacks any sense of danger and that it does not feature any really fascinating stunts. Peter Jackson obviously did not try to evoke any danger here. He wanted it to be a scene that amuses the audience. Not his best choice. But I would not condemn the scene in such drastic words like you did. The scene is just not long enough to call it action-porn or solely “an attempt to add adrenaline”. In fact, one could argue that the scene feels rushed, with little regard for any danger that could befall the company and ultimately not a single stunt that truly makes the audience gasp in awe.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Honestly, there were quite a few bad moments in the trilogy. Which is why I find it strange that some people compare AUJ so unfavorably to to it. I continue to believe that AUJ compares favorably to all three LOTR films.

I concur with that, though I think I would argue that Goblintown was the weakest action sequence (so far ).

I thought that when I saw the film in the theater. I have changed my mind.

I think the Stone Giants scene is the weakest action sequence (so far).

[Primula Baggins]

The longer form is how I would describe the sequence.

I know it worked for a lot of people, and maybe I'll end up sharing Voronwë's view that it's much better when you watch it at home and can focus on it better.

I do clearly remember finding it tedious in the theater, though—probably because there had already been so much that was wonderful in the film. Bang bang bang for bang bang bang's sake, with nothing that advances the plot (beyond "they escape from A to B") or illuminates any character . . . it just "threw me out of the story," as we say in my writing group. I started thinking about other things and couldn't wait for it to be over.

[yovargas]

Equating video games with “artificial, inorganic sequence[s] of action scenes inserted solely to attempt to add adrenaline […]” is just not right; at least not in 2013.

The new Bioshock game is being hailed by reviewers as one of the highest pinnacles of the video game art form and one of the greatest examples of the potential for deeply sophisticated story telling within the medium. I have also heard a handful of these reviewers point out that it's kinda disappointing that the gripping, intelligent story telling has to be occasionally interrupted by pointless action shooty sequences because, well, it's an action game and you need action shooty sequences, right?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

He wanted it to be a scene that amuses the audience. Not his best choice.

How dare someone creating a form of entertainment seek to amuse his audience. The nerve of the guy! Hmmm, can I think of another artist who expressed a similar aim?

The prime motive was the desire of a tale-teller to try his hand at a really long story that would hold the attention of readers, amuse them, delight them, and at times maybe excite them or deeply move them.

The nerve of that guy!

[Beutlin]

How dare someone creating a form of entertainment seek to amuse his audience. The nerve of the guy! Hmmm, can I think of another artist who expressed a similar aim?

I did not criticize the scene because it was not sophisticated enough or because it did not transport any deep messages. What I meant to say is that Jackson deliberately did not try to evoke any danger in this scene. I used the word “amuse” in order to point out what I think Jackson intended to do here. He wanted to create a fun scene, reminiscent of a roller-coaster-ride, where our heroes did not face any real danger. That’s why the escape from Goblin-town is full of “amusing” little shots. The dwarves and Gandalf dispatch the goblins in a funny way. The problem is just that none of these goofy scenes really stick in your memory.

[kzer_za]

As for the videogame complaints, those mean nothing to me because I don't play videogames. To me, either it is good, or it isn't good. To me (and I emphasize that because I can only speak of my own impressions) the videogame complaints seem like an imprecise way of expressing peoples dissatisfaction. The impression that I have (and this of course might be completely wrong), is that people don't like it because they feel like they are supposed to not like it.

Well, I wouldn't exactly say I dislike it. It's fun enough to watch and doesn't really overstay its welcome. The problem a lot of people are saying in different ways, I think, is that the scene doesn't really produce any emotional connection or sense of danger. Most action scenes in LotR do. So does Out of the Frying Pan (the best action scene in AUJ, I think).

But I still haven't seen the movie at home yet.

[axordil]

The problem is just that none of these goofy scenes really stick in your memory.

Or if they do, it's a very blurry memory. The best action sequences, whether involving high stakes or just hi-jinks, have moments that are indelible. Look at Raiders of the Lost Ark. There are probably a dozen iconic moments from action sequences in that movie alone, some of which are clearly there only for fun: the boulder roll, "Shoot them both," the baskets in the market, the feckless swordsman, why you shouldn't box near airplanes, jumping from the horse to the truck (they SO stole that, but it's great), etc.

Compare to the literal roller coaster ride in the second Indy movie, which is about the closest analogy I can think of to G-town. The only thing I can say for sure about it off-hand is that it happened.

I think to some extent PJ had new toys (3D, HFR) and wanted to see what they could do. I can forgive him for that. But if the G-town sequence had more moments like, say, Dwalin knocking goblins off with a ladder and less generic moments of Thorin spinning around and slashing them with his swords, it would be better.

[yovargas]

But if the G-town sequence had more moments like, say, Dwalin knocking goblins off with a ladder and less generic moments of Thorin spinning around and slashing them with his swords, it would be better.

If there were more interesting things happening, it would be more interesting.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I can, again, only speak for myself. The more I watch it, the more interesting I find it. Which is the opposite reaction that I have to the Moria stairs sequence.

[Elentári]

I can, again, only speak for myself. The more I watch it, the more interesting I find it. Which is the opposite reaction that I have to the Moria stairs sequence.

That's probably because there is so much going on the sequence, but it's pretty emotionless, whereas, like others have said, the Moria stairs has the slower pace, dramatic tension and character interaction, with the Fellowship helping each other make the jump. There's no handy ladder lying about to bridge the gap... Watching it for the first time, you don't know if everyone is going to make it unscathed.