Desolation of Smaug sneak peek (spoilers of course)

[Dave_LF]

Hm. With all my comments over the months about how Luke Evans' Bard looked rakish instead of simple and honest, I guess I should have realized it was intentional.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

It really annoys me that PJ seems to deliberately insinuate that the stuff he is making up is somehow based on canon...in the sneak peek when he introduces the High Fells clip he says vaguely that it's something they based on info from the Appendices. He and Philippa should come clean and simply say they are making this stuff up for the movie, and not try to kid the casual viewer that their material is lifted from Tolkien's Appendices. I wouldn't hold it against them and would appreciate a more honest approach.

I was just thinking this exact same thing when I came across this comment elsewhere (sorry to respond to something that you said elsewhere here). It's the one thing that has been progressively annoying me more and more. And in this case, he really isn't that vague about it at all. He says straight out ""It's part of the appendices that Tolkien wrote, and it's part of the expansion of 'The Hobbit' that we're doing." Not much vague about that.

[Elentári]

That's fine, V - I don't remember what I wrote where half the time! Actually I was more meaning "he said something vaguely like..." because I couldn't remember his exact quote without going back and viewing the video again! There's been plenty of examples where he's said stuff in interviews about the material from the Appendices that is blatantly untrue or at least a gross exaggeration, and it shouldn't just be excused as him speaking off the cuff under pressure.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

The other possiblity is that he hasn't actually read the appendices and is just assuming that the stuff that PB made up is in there. I'm not sure how likely that is, but his comments just seem progressively to be more and more "off".

[Elentári]

If you watch the "A Hobbit's Tale" video I linked to in the DVD thread, you'll see more comments from PJ regarding "The Hobbit" being Tolkien's life's work and how the Appendices were really the extended notes Tolkien left from his aborted attempt to rewrite TH...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I really think that he has convinced himself that it is true.

[Beutlin]

I am afraid that I will not be able to continue the transcription of the sneak peek. I have got some other work to do.

The major spoilers/scenes of the sneak peek:

• Motion-capture scene: One of Azog’s orc-archers tries to shoot someone. Subsequently Azog kills said archer. Who did the archer target? Where does this scene take place? Why does Azog kill his minion? Did the archer miss his target or wasn’t he supposed to shoot altogether?

• Boat-scene: Bilbo once more regrets his decision to leave the Shire. Apparently Bard will take the company to Laketown. The dwarves look tired and weary. Bilbo mentions that Kili was wounded by an orc. Why is Bard the ferryman? Is he a member of the raftsmen responsible for the trade with the Wood-Elves? Is Bard not the captain of the guard? When did Kili receive this “orc-wound”? Did the dwarves encounter orcs [Azog?] after their escape from the elves?

• There are several small scenes involving the main elvish characters: Thranduil, Legolas and Tauriel. Tauriel is a member of the King’s personal guard. There is one scene where Tauriel threatens to kill a captured orc, in front of her King Thranduil. Why did the elves capture an orc and lead him into their realm? Will the writer introduce an on-going conflict between the Sindarin and the orcs? Does this orc belong to Azog or is he a minion of the Necromancer himself? Will there be a sufficient explanation for Thranduil’s hatred for the dwarves? Will there be a conflict between Thranduil and his son?

• There are several small scenes that take place in Laketown. Some of them involve the Master of Lake-town and his “man-servant” Alfred (“Mr Unibrow”). The Master is a satirical character. There is also a scene where Bard escapes from a band of Lake-town soldiers. Thorin announces his plan to reclaim Erebor to the people of Lake-town. Why does Bard flee from the soldiers? Is he not their captain? Does he know about his ancestry?

• The last (and only “finished”) scene involves Gandalf and Radagast, exploring the tombs of the Ring-wraiths. I guess every one already knows this scene, so it is futile to describe it again. Gandalf already carries Glamdring in this scene, so it is highly unlikely that this will be presented as a flashback.

I might have forgotten a scene or two. Nothing was really said about Beorn. What will be Gandalf’s role in the second movie? Peter Jackson mentioned in the video that one of interesting aspects of the “Two Towers” were the different storylines. Does this mean that Gandalf’s storyline (a.k.a. “Dol Guldur sub-plot”) will feature prominently in the “Desolation of Smaug”?

On a completely different note, I have to write an abstract about “Beowulf” for university (I am studying history). Although I should solely focus on the primary source for the abstract, I am still curious: Do any of you Tolkien experts out there know about the Professor’s view on the poem? I know about Tolkien’s lecture “The Monsters and the Critics” and this abstract was a good excuse to buy said book on the internet (albeit I have not read it yet.). I know that Tolkien argued that the poem should be studied as a work of art, but what did he think about it from a historical perspective?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Beutlin, thanks for that summary. Very helpful and thought-provoking.

You may want to take a look at this essay by Tom Shippey, in which he argues that Tolkien was more successful than he intended at getting the poem considered for its artistic merit, resulting in a wrongful reduction in its perceived historical value. Shippey also points out, however, that Tolkien's view dating the poem earlier than had previously been thought, in “the age of Bede”, i.e. the earlier 8th century, has recently been more widely accepted.

http://www.lotrplaza.com/showthread.php ... om-Shippey

[kzer_za]

So no news on the Tauriel-Alfrid-Kili love triangle?

[axordil]

On the positive side, Stephen Colbert's ultrageek question was answered "yes." It will be made clear that the House of Thranduil is Sindarin and the elves they rule over are not.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

If, in fact, Jackson actually even understood what it was that Colbert was asking.

[Elentári]

• The last (and only “finished”) scene involves Gandalf and Radagast, exploring the tombs of the Ring-wraiths. I guess every one already knows this scene, so it is futile to describe it again. Gandalf already carries Glamdring in this scene, so it is highly unlikely that this will be presented as a flashback.

Gandalf having Glamdring does NOT negate the possibility of the scene being a flashback! Going by the Weta Chronicles, Gandalf and Radagast investigate the Nazgûl tombs after leaving Rivendell, so Gandalf would have had Glamdring. Since the sequence appears to not be being shown in chronological order in AUJ, then it may well be told/shown as a flashback in DoS - perhaps from the safety of Beorn's place?

[kzer_za]

Jackson (or maybe Boyens or someone else on the film) has talked before about how the Woodland elves are more "earthy and practical-minded" than the ones we've seen so far.

[axordil]

• The last (and only “finished”) scene involves Gandalf and Radagast, exploring the tombs of the Ring-wraiths. I guess every one already knows this scene, so it is futile to describe it again. Gandalf already carries Glamdring in this scene, so it is highly unlikely that this will be presented as a flashback.

Gandalf having Glamdring does NOT negate the possibility of the scene being a flashback! Going by the Weta Chronicles, Gandalf and Radagast investigate the Nazgûl tombs after leaving Rivendell, so Gandalf would have had Glamdring. Since the sequence appears to not be being shown in chronological order in AUJ, then it may well be told/shown as a flashback in DoS - perhaps from the safety of Beorn's place?

After all the discussion of the provenance of the Morgul Blade at the White Council, heading off to see what's what in nearby Rhudaur would make sense.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

True. You guys are starting to bring me around to that position. It could be shown as a flashback that helps explain why Gandalf leaves the company again before they enter Mirkwood. Though that has the potential to be quite awkward. It does seem clear, though, that this is one aspect that Jackson and friends feel confident about, since it is the one scene that they showed in the sneak peek. Of course, it also makes sense that it would be among the most finished parts of the second film, if it was originally supposed to be in the first film!

[Dave_LF]

My gut feeling is that the movie will open with this scene (perhaps following another old Bilbo/Frodo segment). It would be an effective way of both reminding audiences of the details and escalating the perceived importance of a subplot that was cursory to part 1, but will be featured front and center in part 2 (by all accounts).

[Voronwë the Faithful]

My gut feeling is that the film will open with a different flashback, Gandalf gettng the key and map from Thrain.

[Dave_LF]

That's my #2 choice!

That could also work as the opening for #3, but it looks like the break between the 2 may come too late in the story for that make sense.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

We don't have any really solid information about when the break is yet, do we?

[Dave_LF]

Well; they showed Bilbo talking to Smaug during the sneak peek, so I'm assuming it's at least after that.