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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:19 pm 
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As watching a scene play out is very different than watching a trailer, I figured this topic should have its own thread. Thus far, we have seen one extended scene of Gandalf giving Bilbo Sting. And now, courtesy of a Canadian TV show (where Armitage was being interviewed) we have a second clip.

The scene shows us the start of the first warg attack (just sit through the interview for a minute or so, and you'll see it).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAZNlPGbD54

To me, it looks like some horribly contrived fanfic, with Gandalf reprimanding Thorin for possibly "telling people" about the quest, thus leading to the orcs finding out and hunting them down...

Expectations plummeting...

What say you?


Last edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:31 pm 
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Figured I may as well add the Gandalf and Bilbo "Sting moment" too:

http://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/the-hobbit-new-clip-gandalf-gives-bilbo-sting/

A little awkward (Gandalf's response to Bilbo is not so much a response as it is an unwarranted and misplaced statement of information) but I like the content of most of the dialogue. Tolkien never really shied away from foreshadowing, so I don't mind it here.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Shelob'sAppetite wrote:
As watching a scene play out is very different than watching a trailer, I figured this topic should have its own thread. Thus far, we have seen one extended scene of Gandalf giving Bilbo Sting. And now, courtesy of a Canadian TV show (where Armitage was being interviewed) we have a second clip.

The scene shows us the start of the first warg attack (just sit through the interview for a minute or so, and you'll see it).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAZNlPGbD54

To me, it looks like some horribly contrived fanfic, with Gandalf reprimanding Thorin for possibly "telling people" about the quest, thus leading to the orcs finding out and hunting them down...

Expectations plummeting...

What say you?


Don't know if it was the quality of the clip but the warg attack looks incredibly fake...I don't mean the CGI but the pace of the action! The warg looked like it just ambled over the top of the group and was killed quite calmly. I was expecting a more frenzied attack by the warg and a faster reaction. It was all way too calm - almost sitcom like! <shrug>

Oh, and yes, Gandalf's reaction to the attack was bizarre...just another example of how the scriptwriters flounder somewhat when they decide to insert their own agenda into the storyline...

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Constant buffering. Everyone must be watching this.

Ok, got it now. I actually don't have a problem with the dialog.

I agree about the timing, but is this even finished footage? There's no music, at least, and that has a big impact on perception.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:11 pm 
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Elentári wrote:
Shelob'sAppetite wrote:
As watching a scene play out is very different than watching a trailer, I figured this topic should have its own thread. Thus far, we have seen one extended scene of Gandalf giving Bilbo Sting. And now, courtesy of a Canadian TV show (where Armitage was being interviewed) we have a second clip.

The scene shows us the start of the first warg attack (just sit through the interview for a minute or so, and you'll see it).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAZNlPGbD54

To me, it looks like some horribly contrived fanfic, with Gandalf reprimanding Thorin for possibly "telling people" about the quest, thus leading to the orcs finding out and hunting them down...

Expectations plummeting...

What say you?


Don't know if it was the quality of the clip but the warg attack looks incredibly fake...I don't mean the CGI but the pace of the action! The warg looked like it just ambled over the top of the group and was killed quite calmly. I was expecting a more frenzied attack by the warg and a faster reaction. It was all way too calm - almost sitcom like! <shrug>

Oh, and yes, Gandalf's reaction to the attack was bizarre...just another example of how the scriptwriters flounder somewhat when they decide to insert their own agenda into the storyline...


Yes, there was something incredibly "off" about the action, which was, well, off-putting. The pace of the action, and the way in which the characters seem to simply shrug off the fact that two massive ferocious beasts just walked into their little social gathering, makes it brutally obvious that what we just saw was the slaying of a video-game monster, not a horrifying near-death experience.

Follow that up with some embarrassingly contrived "tension" created by Gandalf's ridiculous assertion that Thorin may have been loose-lipped about his quest (something that seems rather alien to the "quiet nobility" Armitage mentions Thorin is infused with) and you have a rather piss-poor scene (pardon my language, but I am really into hyphenated vulgar words these days).

The fact that this clip was chosen to air during the interview leaves me very worried. If they like this bit, what other garbage is this movie filled with?

-SA

Oh, and Voronwë, make some more popcorn! ;)


Last edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:13 pm 
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Dave_LF wrote:
Constant buffering. Everyone must be watching this.

Ok, got it now. I actually don't have a problem with the dialog.

I agree about the timing, but is this even finished footage? There's no music, at least, and that has a big impact on perception.


Would they really be showing unfinished footage at this stage? The film has already premiered!

Furthermore, there is definitely music. It is just very muted, due to the low-quality recording. Maybe it will play better in the cinema, but I still hate the dialogue.


Last edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:16 pm 
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I know, but the background almost looked like greenscreen, and the score was either absent or very toned down. I would expect a bit more musical panic if this were the final product. But who knows.

ETA: Radagast is there!

EASTTA: What's the frame rate on this clip? Am I falling victim to "48fps looks like behind the scenes footage" syndrome? It's a recording of a TV show so it's not 48, but it could be 30.

EATTTA: "What in Durin's name is going on?"


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Dave_LF wrote:
I know, but the background almost looked like greenscreen, and the score was either absent or very toned down. I would expect a bit more musical panic if this were the final product. But who knows.

ETA: Radagast is there!

AETA: What's the frame rate on this clip? Am I falling victim to "48fps looks like behind the scenes footage" syndrome?


The video was recorded by someone watching the show on TV, so probably the same frame rate your standard video camera has...

I admit that this is a pretty terrible recording, so its not fair to fully judge the scene at this point. However, my problem is primarily with how the actors interact with the wargs. It is almost brutally obvious that they are responding to thin air.

Plus, though I have known about the warg scout subplot for some time now, it hadn't sunk in until now how out of place, and not-the-Hobbit it is. It mostly reminds me of that scene with the dog-alien in Avatar, though even that seemed far more tense and realistic.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Shelob'sAppetite wrote:
Dave_LF wrote:
Constant buffering. Everyone must be watching this.

Ok, got it now. I actually don't have a problem with the dialog.

I agree about the timing, but is this even finished footage? There's no music, at least, and that has a big impact on perception.


Would they really be showing unfinished footage at this stage? The film has already premiered!

Furthermore, there is definitely music. It is just very muted, due to the low-quality recording. Maybe it will play better in the cinema, but I still hate the dialogue.


Rendering for the HFR 3D probably takes a lot longer than they anticipated. Just a guess but my sense is the film is not really as finished as they wanted it to be. This might also be a result of the last minute decision to go to 3 films, or maybe even the reason they went to 3 films (ie they didn't have time to finish a longer film 1).


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:33 pm 
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It depends on who you listen to. In the admittedly small sample size that we have (which should increase considerably when the embargo ends, purportedly in about 10 and a half hours), the HFR either looks cheap and terrible, or it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:51 pm 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
It depends on who you listen to. In the admittedly small sample size that we have (which should increase considerably when the embargo ends, purportedly in about 10 and a half hours), the HFR either looks cheap and terrible, or it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.


Right, but some of the people who love it say it looks like "an incredibly realistic video game," and say so as if that is a positive. As I really dislike that look, I expect I will dislike Jackson's use of 48fps. And then those who dislike it echo exactly the problem I have with it.

In other words, neither the positive nor the negative reactions to the Hobbit's 48fps are very reassuring to me, because of the content of their likes and dislikes.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:59 pm 
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But since you aren't going to see it in 48 fps, it is all good (or am I wrong about that, and you are thinking of checking out the 48 fps version?).

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:06 pm 
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Dave_LF wrote:
EATTTA: "What in Durin's name is going on?"


I really liked that.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:10 pm 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
But since you aren't going to see it in 48 fps, it is all good (or am I wrong about that, and you are thinking of checking out the 48 fps version?).


For my first viewing, I will watch it in IMAX 3D at 24fps (I have been reassured that the 3D is not gratuitous at all, and provides depth rather than pop-ups, so I will want to see if that way first). Then, if I deem it worth watching again, I will see it in regular 2D.

Then, if I actually like the movie a lot, I will go see a 3D 48fps version, just to see it for myself.

However, my understanding of a film shot at 48fps is that even if it is screened at 24fps, the final product will still look a bit unnaturally smooth, because the 48fps cameras don't capture as much blur. So that super-clear look you see in the trailers is the result of both 5K res filming, and 48fps. I think...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:21 pm 
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Remind me never to use wargs as scouts. Evidently they just charge in and attack the moment they spot the enemy, despite being horribly outnumbered and outgunned.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:24 pm 
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Dave_LF wrote:
Remind me never to use wargs as scouts. Evidently they just charge in and attack the moment they spot the enemy, despite being horribly outnumbered and outgunned.


Haha! Isn't part of the job description for "scout," observing the enemy's location and movements, and then reporting back? Terrible job. These wargs should be fired, posthumously, from the orc pack!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:45 pm 
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Here it is in good quality (they make you watch an ad first):
http://www.marilyn.ca/Video.aspx#clip818554&vp127686

It comes off about a zillion times better in this version.

Edit: Another thing we could ask is how do the orcs know about the quest? Did Thorin tell someone? Do they have a palantír? Is there a spy among the dwarves (I'm guessing it's the one without a beard)?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:03 pm 
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I think we will find that that is tied up with how the Necromancer storyline is connected to the main storyline.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:59 am 
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Dave_LF wrote:
Here it is in good quality (they make you watch an ad first):
http://www.marilyn.ca/Video.aspx#clip818554&vp127686

It comes off about a zillion times better in this version.

Edit: Another thing we could ask is how do the orcs know about the quest? Did Thorin tell someone? Do they have a palantír? Is there a spy among the dwarves (I'm guessing it's the one without a beard)?


Definitely better, but there's still something supremely fake about it. One almost hilarious bit is how Bofur turns around, sees the warg, and doesn't react at all as it leaps down into the group! It looks like he is simply letting Thorin have his hero moment. That kind of awkward staging has plagued all of PJ's films, IMO, and we can probably look forward to lots of it in this film.

-SA


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:03 am 
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