The AUJ Extended Edition Anticipation Thread (SPOILERS)

[Elentári]

PJ also said, I believe in an Empire article, that the Hobbit book has no "emotional depth."

Fair enough, I suppose. But does he really believe that in AUJ, he remedied that? It may very well be the least emotionally deep film of the decade!

Apart from the magnificence of Freeman and McKellen's gifts in particular, you have to admit that he has attempted to remedy it largely by resorting to the usual 101 clichés, such as the angry hug, the forbidden/mismatched romance, the cute kids...

Yet some of his touches are inspired, such as the Bofur/Bilbo scene in the cave, and some of Balin's moments that we've glimpses in the trailers for DoS, so there is still hope for some flashes of brilliance...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I thought the book had all kinds of emotional depth. We get lots of glimpses of Bilbo feeling scared or lonely or longing for home and having to decide how to deal with that. "Emotion" doesn't just mean romantic love and being moody and depressed (because your romances aren't working out).

And Freeman (as directed by Jackson) expressed that very feeling remarkably well, without the benefit of specific dialogue, or the "Hollywood cliché" devise of narrative voice overs.

[Passdagas the Brown]

When, in the film, does Bilbo get a chance to show either loneliness or a longing from home, apart from the very short EE scene with Bilbo and Elrond?

In his conversation with Bofur, he is reacting to being "rejected" by Thorin, and not to being homesick. And his "miss my books" address is part of a point he makes about home in a speech designed to explain his commitment to the quest, and not a moment that shows either his loneliness or longing for home.

That's it! In a three hour film, we get about two-three minutes of this side of Bilbo's character, and a chunk of that isn't even in the theatrical release! IMO, that's an almost criminal underdevelopment of the main character. There were so many wonderful opportunities to explore the Bilbo-dwarf group dynamics, and they were mostly missed.

As a Hobbit reader, I can fill in the gaps with what I know about Bilbo. But a lay audience mostly has to agree that his character is very, very thin indeed.

That's despite the brilliant performance of Martin Freeman. He succeeds with little help from the writers and director.

It's not working, V. I'm still upset!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

It's in every scene he is in, if you look for it.

[Passdagas the Brown]

That's a cop out, IMO. So while he's running away from wargs, dodging stone giants, and attacking Azog, we're supposed to see that he's also homesick and lonely?

If "loneliness" and "homesickness" and "out of place-ness" was deemed an important element of Bilbo's character, there should have been far more attention paid to scenes of him alone, among the dwarves but not fitting in, and explicitly pining for home, as there was in the book. If PJ and Philippa were truly serious about injecting more emotional depth into the story, why, in the script, was there less emotional depth to Bilbo than he had in the book? I just don't find their comments about their "improvements" very convincing.

As it stands, Freeman's wonderful performance is buried under chase scenes, giant battles and other stuff about Sauron.

But I freely admit that despite PJ and his dubious choices, Freeman shines. However, given a great script, and a great director, he might currently be contending for best leading actor at the Oscars.

[Beutlin]

But I freely admit that despite PJ and his dubious choices, Freeman shines. However, given a great script, and a great director, he might currently be contending for best leading actor at the Oscars.

Oh, I still consider Peter Jackson a great director, a man gifted with plenty of talent. And I would especially applaud him for his ability to work with actors. He might not be one of the great intellectual directors such as Alfonso Cuarón or Terrence Malick, but he has a great ability to produce unforgettable pictures. And that is after all what films are all about.

For anyone interested in a good read, the “New Yorker” republished their old film review of “The Two Towers” lately. It was written by the great Anthony Lane, my favourite film critic and curiously a lover of Tolkien’s works.

Source: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/0 ... rentPage=2

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I removed several posts in which posters are arguing with and about each other to Nan Elmoth so that the discussion here can remain focused on the films. For the record, posts that insult public figures or call them names like "stupid" would be inappropriate. But since there has not been any, we have not had to address them

[Elentári]

In case anyone is interested, TheHutt over on TORN is working on making a booklet for the AUJ SEE:

Everybody (I hope) remembers the excellent booklets included in the LOTR SEE DVDs. Printed on quality paper, they were just the cherry on top of the superb packaging design.
And even though Warner was more or less trying to copy the LOTR SEE packaging (more in case of the UK DVD, less in case of every other country), the booklet was the first thing to be omitted. A pity, as it offers a great overview over the bonus features as well as over the chapter list.

So I decided to make it right and provide a replacement booklet for everybody to print at home, in a copy shop or a printing facility of your choice.

I will be making both a DVD and a BluRay dimensioned booklet. The downloadable version will be online as soon as it's finished. So far, however, here is what is done.
For illustrations, I used some of the John Howe / Alan Lee sketches from The Hobbit Chronicles Artbook.

Front/Back page

For the front page, I decided to use the Hobbit logo as opposed to LOTR logos which focused on the single titles ("The Fellowship of the Ring" etc.). The reason is that the LOTR titles are real book titles; the Hobbit titles are not. They are just artificial inventions of the script writers.
At the back, all LOTR booklets feature a high structure: the Throne of Othanc at FOTR, part of Meduseld at TTT, a tower in Minas Tirith in ROTK. For AUJ, I chose the Carrock.
The US booklets contain additional text for DVD-ROM materials at the back; the European ones (I have German) are just blank. Frankly, I like it more that way.




Introduction (Pages 1+2)

That was a tricky one, as the Hobbit does not feature that much textual content. I used text material from the AUJ SEE DVD, the WB press release as well as the existing LOTR booklets.





Chapter List (Pages 3+4)

As The Hobbit: AUJ features rather few chapters (35 as opposed to 48 in FOTR, 68 in TTT and 78 in ROTK), it was rather a work of typing off the DVD screens.




As for the appendices lists (which will be on pages 4+5 and 6+7). All of them are designed differently for the LOTR discs. I am yet not quite sure which design to go for: either a Dwarvish design, or a floral Hobbity design, or neither. I'd rather hold off the Dwarvish design for the future parts.


Any questions, ideas, contributions, thoughts?


To be continued...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Pretty amazing work

[Passdagas the Brown]

The Hutt's an impressive guy. Great work.

Too bad Warner Bros. couldn't be bothered to hire someone to put in that sort of work.

They're the fast food of movie studios, to say the least. New Line, at the time of LOTR, was on a much higher plane.

[sauronsfinger]

In case anyone is interested, TheHutt over on TORN is working on making a booklet for the AUJ SEE:

Everybody (I hope) remembers the excellent booklets included in the LOTR SEE DVDs. Printed on quality paper, they were just the cherry on top of the superb packaging design.
And even though Warner was more or less trying to copy the LOTR SEE packaging (more in case of the UK DVD, less in case of every other country), the booklet was the first thing to be omitted. A pity, as it offers a great overview over the bonus features as well as over the chapter list.

So I decided to make it right and provide a replacement booklet for everybody to print at home, in a copy shop or a printing facility of your choice.

I will be making both a DVD and a BluRay dimensioned booklet. The downloadable version will be online as soon as it's finished. So far, however, here is what is done.
For illustrations, I used some of the John Howe / Alan Lee sketches from The Hobbit Chronicles Artbook.

Front/Back page

For the front page, I decided to use the Hobbit logo as opposed to LOTR logos which focused on the single titles ("The Fellowship of the Ring" etc.). The reason is that the LOTR titles are real book titles; the Hobbit titles are not. They are just artificial inventions of the script writers.
At the back, all LOTR booklets feature a high structure: the Throne of Othanc at FOTR, part of Meduseld at TTT, a tower in Minas Tirith in ROTK. For AUJ, I chose the Carrock.
The US booklets contain additional text for DVD-ROM materials at the back; the European ones (I have German) are just blank. Frankly, I like it more that way.




Introduction (Pages 1+2)

That was a tricky one, as the Hobbit does not feature that much textual content. I used text material from the AUJ SEE DVD, the WB press release as well as the existing LOTR booklets.





Chapter List (Pages 3+4)

As The Hobbit: AUJ features rather few chapters (35 as opposed to 48 in FOTR, 68 in TTT and 78 in ROTK), it was rather a work of typing off the DVD screens.




As for the appendices lists (which will be on pages 4+5 and 6+7). All of them are designed differently for the LOTR discs. I am yet not quite sure which design to go for: either a Dwarvish design, or a floral Hobbity design, or neither. I'd rather hold off the Dwarvish design for the future parts.


Any questions, ideas, contributions, thoughts?


To be continued...

WOW!!!!!! What a gift to the world!

[Elentári]

It is amazing, isn't it?

TheHutt has been posting updates throughout the morning...

this is the latest one with the left-hand page basically done:



He also says:

...this is a 8 page booklet, the pages 1, 8, 2-3, 4-5 are already taken. So there is only the double page 6-7 which remains for the Appendices mindmaps. However, they are less complex than the LOTR ones, and do not need that much branching.

However, the DVD version will require a different structure for Appendices 7, as the contents is split between 2 DVDs.

Due to the fact that both Appendices will appear on two opposite pages, I decided against ornamental frames (like used on TTT and ROTK) and would venture a version without (like on FOTR).

.

[sauronsfinger]

The Hutt's an impressive guy. Great work.

Too bad Warner Bros. couldn't be bothered to hire someone to put in that sort of work.

They're the fast food of movie studios, to say the least. New Line, at the time of LOTR, was on a much higher plane.

Lets hope the sign him on for films 2 and 3.

[Elentári]

A day later...Well... what should I say. The quick and dirty appendices tree is finished. I'll clean everything a bit up and will make a hi-res version for downloading and printing next week.

[Smaug's voice]

Smashing!

[Siberian]

The main point being: if PJ thought that was a problem, why did he spend so little time with Bilbo as a character?

I think the answer is obvious: he wants Thorin to be the main character here (just like Aragorn was for LOTR). The irony regarding Thorin's self-importance is expressed more than once in the books, I don't recall a single instance in the movie. Thorin is the most handsome. The bravest, the smartest, the noblest. Everyone is in awe of him. Men want to be like him, women want to be with him, and so on.

[Siberian]

That's a cop out, IMO. So while he's running away from wargs, dodging stone giants, and attacking Azog, we're supposed to see that he's also homesick and lonely?

If "loneliness" and "homesickness" and "out of place-ness" was deemed an important element of Bilbo's character, there should have been far more attention paid to scenes of him alone, among the dwarves but not fitting in, and explicitly pining for home, as there was in the book. If PJ and Philippa were truly serious about injecting more emotional depth into the story, why, in the script, was there less emotional depth to Bilbo than he had in the book? I just don't find their comments about their "improvements" very convincing.

As it stands, Freeman's wonderful performance is buried under chase scenes, giant battles and other stuff about Sauron.

When LOTR came out, a typical excuse was that they didn't have time to show everything. Now, they have plenty of time and they still fail to show even the most obvious themes from the book. Bunny sleds and overlong actions scenes seem to be of more important to them.

But I freely admit that despite PJ and his dubious choices, Freeman shines. However, given a great script, and a great director, he might currently be contending for best leading actor at the Oscars.

Passdagas I agree completely! It's refreshing to see a voice of reason when even Tolkien fans give PJ a pass for hollywoodization of Tolkien's wonderful creation.

Freeman (and Shire scenes) is the only bright spot in AUJ. I'm trying to go through EE right now and I'm tempted to skip any scene without him as they're typically unwatchable.

[Smaug's voice]

Passdagas I agree completely! It's refreshing to see a voice of reason when even Tolkien fans give PJ a pass for hollywoodization of Tolkien's wonderful creation.

What do you mean?Is it:

A)No Tolkien fan should like PJ's adaptation.
B)Tolkien fans who like PJ's adaptation are unreasonable.
C)A Tolkien fan cannot see PJ's adaptation as anything more than a hollywodized product.

Whichever it is, I completely and heavily disagree with all of them.
And frankly, it seems quite offensive to the few of us (at least me) who like PJ's films and love Tolkien at the same time..

[Siberian]

Passdagas I agree completely! It's refreshing to see a voice of reason when even Tolkien fans give PJ a pass for hollywoodization of Tolkien's wonderful creation.

What do you mean?Is it:

A)No Tolkien fan should like PJ's adaptation.
B)Tolkien fans who like PJ's adaptation are unreasonable.
C)A Tolkien fan cannot see PJ's adaptation as anything more than a hollywodized product.

None of the above, actually (because even cliched movies might have some merit).

Whichever it is, I completely and heavily disagree with all of them.
And frankly, it seems quite offensive to the few of us (at least me) who like PJ's films and love Tolkien at the same time..

I never said it's wrong to enjoy the movies. I still like FOTR myself and some moments in other movies. I just wish Tolkien fans were not as lenient with PJ's taking too many liberties with story (with some exceptions during the filming of LOTR). Maybe he'd be treating The Hobbit with more respect now.

[yovargas]

I am the revisioniest of revisionists - I couldn't give a damn how many liberties he takes, I care if it works in the movies. Some of his liberties work, some don't, and that's all that matters. EG. I love Osgiliath. Feel free to crucify me.