The AUJ Extended Edition Anticipation Thread (SPOILERS)

Post by **Passdagas the Brown** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:56 am

I don't mind that some Tolkien fans love the films. In fact, I envy them.

I just cannot share their enthusiasm. For me, they're a double whammy. I don't like them as adaptations of Tolkien, and as a film buff, I don't like them as films.

Ah well. I at least enjoy small portions of each...

Post by **Siberian** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:16 pm

yovargas wrote:I am the revisioniest of revisionists - I couldn't give a damn how many liberties he takes, I care if it works in the movies. Some of his liberties work, some don't, and that's all that matters. EG. I love Osgiliath. Feel free to crucify me.

Michael Bay's movies work too, on some superficial levels. Maybe I'm asking too much, but I think one of the greatest stories of the 20th century deserves more than just "it works".

Post by **yovargas** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:23 pm

Considering it's one of the most widely praised and loved movies (3 movies!) of this century, it's fair to say it got much better than that.

Post by **Siberian** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:24 pm

Passdagas the Brown wrote:I don't mind that some Tolkien fans love the films. In fact, I envy them.

I just cannot share their enthusiasm. For me, they're a double whammy. I don't like them as adaptations of Tolkien, and as a film buff, I don't like them as films.

Ah well. I at least enjoy small portions of each...

Me too, but typically it's something that's closer to the book.

My problem is false promises. PJ positioned himself as a big admirer of JRRT, even managed to get a couple of well-known artists... and then just went ahead and replaced most of the book with Hollywood cliches. That's why I'm annoyed when fans give him a pass. Enjoy the movies all you want but at least don't claim it's a good adaptation.

Post by **yovargas** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:29 pm

Does it matter if it's a "good" and faithful adaptation if it can still move to tears 10+ year later?

(As a sidenote, I just watched FOTR last week with a very film-snobby cinephile friend of mine who typically has next to no interest in fantasy or action and knows nothing about Tolkien. Afterward he specifically commented on how surprising it was that such a mainstream, big-budget movie had so many artful, non-Hollywood touches. His words, not mine.)

Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:30 pm

I'll be sure to tell John Rateliff that the next time I speak to him, since clearly he has no idea what The Hobbit is about (or Tolkien's work in general).

ETA: I don't mind people expressing their own opinion about the films, but I do mind people criticizing or insulting other people for holding a different opinion. That is not necessary or appropriate.

Post by **Smaug's voice** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:55 pm

Siberian wrote:
Passdagas the Brown wrote:I don't mind that some Tolkien fans love the films. In fact,
I envy them.

I just cannot share their enthusiasm. For me, they're a double whammy. I
don't like them as adaptations of Tolkien, and as a film buff, I don't
like them as films.

Ah well. I at least enjoy small portions of each...
Me too, but typically it's something that's closer to the book.

My problem is false promises. PJ positioned himself as a big admirer of
JRRT, even managed to get a couple of well-known artists... and then
just went ahead and replaced most of the book with Hollywood cliches.
That's why I'm annoyed when fans give him a pass. Enjoy the movies all
you want but at least don't claim it's a good adaptation.

Sue me if you can, I think they are brilliant adaptations.

Seriously now.
You think they are bad adaptations. Fine. I don't have any problem with that.
So why should my opinion annoy you this much? Just stick to your own and all will be fine. Peace!

Post by **Siberian** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:03 pm

yovargas wrote:Does it matter if it's a "good" and faithful adaptation if it can still move to tears 10+ year later?

To a regular moviegoer? Likely not. To a fan, probably should, at least to some extent. Unless you can forget about the source and enjoy the movies for what they are (i.e. entertaining action adventure blockbusters that you don't want to analyze too much because then they start falling apart).

(As a sidenote, I just watched FOTR last week with a very film-snobby cinephile friend of mine who typically has next to no interest in fantasy or action and knows nothing about Tolkien. Afterward he specifically commented on how surprising it was that such a mainstream, big-budget movie had so many artful, non-Hollywood touches. His words, not mine.)

FOTR has the least amount of cliches (it's when they invent stuff they start to appear). I still like FOTR myself and can watch it by simply ignoring the added stuff. If the rest was like FOTR, I'd probably be mostly fine with them. It's not changes that annoy me per se (FOTR has a fare share but I either like or tolerate them). It's just I don't feel they add anything or, worse, diminish the characters and ideas.

Post by **yovargas** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:11 pm

Siberian wrote:
yovargas wrote:Does it matter if it's a "good" and faithful adaptation if it can still move to tears 10+ year later?
To a regular moviegoer? Likely not. To a fan, probably should, at least to some extent.

I disagree with that very, very, very strongly. Any work of art should be judged on its own merits as much as possible. My prior knowledge of Tolkien is irrelevant to the quality of the movie as entertainment or art.

Post by **Siberian** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:53 pm

That's actually debatable. A movie can be evaluated as both a movie and an adaptation, just like a historical movie (or a TV show) can be evaluated on both historicity and on its own terms. I'd give FOTR a solid B as a movie and B- as an adaptation, the rest are more like C-. AUJ is actually not that bad as far as adaptations go but it doesn't really work as a movie even compared to TTT and ROTK.

What's funny is that when I tried to forget about books they made even less sense (at least I can fill the gaps from the books on occasion where PJ didn't alter things too drastically).

Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:05 pm

I absolutely agree. So evaluate it, and tell us what you think. Don't tell us what you think about other people's evaluations.

Post by **Siberian** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:08 pm

Smaug's voice wrote:
Siberian wrote:
Passdagas the Brown wrote:I don't mind that some Tolkien fans love the films. In fact,
I envy them.

I just cannot share their enthusiasm. For me, they're a double whammy. I
don't like them as adaptations of Tolkien, and as a film buff, I don't
like them as films.

Ah well. I at least enjoy small portions of each...
Me too, but typically it's something that's closer to the book.

My problem is false promises. PJ positioned himself as a big admirer of
JRRT, even managed to get a couple of well-known artists... and then
just went ahead and replaced most of the book with Hollywood cliches.
That's why I'm annoyed when fans give him a pass. Enjoy the movies all
you want but at least don't claim it's a good adaptation.

Sue me if you can, I think they are brilliant adaptations.

Seriously now.
You think they are bad adaptations. Fine. I don't have any problem with that.
So why should my opinion annoy you this much? Just stick to your own and all will be fine. Peace!

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. And at least you stand by it. I have a few friends who were gaga over LOTR when it first came out and defended all the changes as justified. A few years later, they changed their tune and and acted as if they'd always been critical. These days, of course, they're not happy with The Hobbit and wished someone else directed them - but what has really changed? PJ and his writing team are simply being consistent, what did they expect?

Post by **yovargas** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:43 pm

I have a few friends who were gaga over LOTR when it first came out and defended all the changes as justified.

The only "justification" needed is if they like it or not.

Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:59 pm

Siberian, it is possible that your last post cross-posted with my last post, but I am going to make it absolutely clear in an "official" shirriff post. It is perfectly fine to express any opinion here, so long as it is done respectfully and courteously. It is not acceptable to demean other people for holding opinions that you do not agree with. Further such posts will be edited or removed, and if they persist, posting restrictions may be applied.

Post by **Elentári** » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:47 pm

As promised, TheHutt has "published" his AUJ EE booklet for free download from his Henneth-Annun website

TH:AUJ SEE: An Unexpected Booklet -

Well, as I promised, the fan booklet for The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Special Extended Edition is finished.

What a great guy to give so generously of his time and talents to the fandom...

Post by **Alatar** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:10 am

Thanks for that Elen! Will need to find a way to print on good quality glossy paper!

Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:24 pm

Yes, thank you Elen, and a big thank you to The Hutt for his labor of love.

Post by **Smaug's voice** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:35 pm

Brilliant job by TheHutt. And hannon-le Elentári.

Post by **narya** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:33 am

Guess what I found in Target today?

Am I the only one to buy the EEAUJ?

I was frankly not that thrilled with the humongous-screen-IMAX-ill-fitting-3D-glasses-high-frame-rate-overrun-with-orcs-packed-theatre-experience the first time around and am looking forward to a cozy little experience with my lap top. And perhaps a chatty little commentary on the side.

Post by **Passdagas the Brown** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:46 am

narya wrote:Guess what I found in Target today? Am I the only one to buy the EEAUJ?

I was frankly not that thrilled with the humongous-screen-IMAX-ill-fitting-3D-glasses-high-frame-rate-overrun-with-orcs-packed-theatre-experience the first time around and am looking forward to a cozy little experience with my lap top. And perhaps a chatty little commentary on the side.

I own it - but just a digital copy.