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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:53 pm 
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I just got this in the mail, and the most significant confirmation of something that was cut regards Gandalf's travels. After Rivendell, Gandalf goes to the "High Fells" to explore the Witch King's tomb (somewhere in the North Downs/Fornost, I suppose). It is there, I imagine, that he discovers that the Witch King has fled.

This was supposedly intercut with Thorin and company's travels over the Misty Mountains/into Goblintown.

While this is more of the Necromancer stuff that I didn't like, perhaps adding it back in will make that plot line seem a lot less perfunctory and half-baked. It was definitely in the trailers, so I assume it will make it into the EE...


Last edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:00 pm 
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I think it is maybe being saved for Desolation. If not, it will probably be in the EE, unless some last-minute story change contradicts it, in which case we'll never see it at all.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:09 pm 
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Did you also notice that the Chronicles has zero mention of Azog? It simply talks only about warg riders in general and the escape from the fir trees. Shows how late a decision the Azog insertion was...

Another sequence mentioned in this book that was filmed but cut for the EE is the "young Bilbo" sequence, according to Ann Maskrey:

Quote:
"Before travelling to Matamata for the Hobbiton location shoot we had one day shooting in Wellington with Little Bilbo, his mother Belladona, Old Hob, Old Gammidge and Bilbo's grandfather, the Old Took. They have a little chat over a drink when Gandalf arrives - quite a nice scene actually. It was very picturesque with hobbits outside under a tent enjoying a half-pint, young girls dancing, a bit of colourful magic that set the scene for later events."


And Dan Hennah reveals that he played the Old Took!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:15 am 
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Dave_LF wrote:
I think it is maybe being saved for Desolation. If not, it will probably be in the EE, unless some last-minute story change contradicts it, in which case we'll never see it at all.


But the High Fells are west of the Misty Mountains, which means Gandalf will have to travel back across them to get there...

Perhaps we will see it at the beginning of film 2 as a flashback?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:16 am 
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Elentári wrote:
Did you also notice that the Chronicles has zero mention of Azog? It simply talks only about warg riders in general and the escape from the fir trees. Shows how late a decision the Azog insertion was...

Another sequence mentioned in this book that was filmed but cut for the EE is the "young Bilbo" sequence, according to Ann Maskrey:

Quote:
"Before travelling to Matamata for the Hobbiton location shoot we had one day shooting in Wellington with Little Bilbo, his mother Belladona, Old Hob, Old Gammidge and Bilbo's grandfather, the Old Took. They have a little chat over a drink when Gandalf arrives - quite a nice scene actually. It was very picturesque with hobbits outside under a tent enjoying a half-pint, young girls dancing, a bit of colourful magic that set the scene for later events."


And Dan Hennah reveals that he played the Old Took!


Yup, it has been confirmed by Boyens that Azog was a very late addition. I am actually glad of that, as a bunch of generic orc scouts tracking the company for the whole film would have been terribly boring. Plus, I really love Azog's design. Almost an orc deity.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:13 pm 
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It occurs to me there's kind of a truth-table one could apply to PJ's work (and perhaps movies, or even art, in general):

Code:
Well-conceived              Well-conceived
Well-executed               Dubiously-executed

Dubiously-conceived         Dubiously-conceived
Well-executed               Dubiously-executed

The things most people have agreed they like? Upper left. The things with not so many defenders? Lower right. Everything else? One of the other corners.

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Last edited by axordil on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:08 pm 
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(Try it with code tags, maybe? I'm not seeing it.)

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― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:15 pm 
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of Vinyamar
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Better?


Code:
+--------------------------------------------------+
| Well-conceived         |     Well-conceived      |
| Well-executed          |   Dubiously-executed    |
+--------------------------------------------------+
| Dubiously-conceived    | Dubiously-conceived     | 
| Well-executed          |  Dubiously-executed     |
+--------------------------------------------------+


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:21 pm 
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The edited version was fine. I posted before it went up. But thanks. I suspected that was what you meant; now I know, and of course I agree.

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Yeah, one of those or the other. :)

The question I find interesting is, how do things play out as they drift onto the chart?

Witness Arwen at Helm's Deep. Okay, shudder first, then witness it. The reason it didn't make it into the movie was evidently because Liv couldn't pull off the scene (and you know, horses and prop weapons are a pretty volatile mix, even if much was CGId in later, so I don't fault her for freaking out), not because it was a really stupid idea.

So: dubiously conceived AND dubiously executed. And absent--but only because they couldn't make it look cool.

On the other hand--they yanked Aragorn fighting Sauron and put in a troll instead. Could they have made it look cool? Almost certainly. But someone, somewhere, said "This is a Bad Idea, guys." (That might actually have been Boyens on the side of the angels for once, if my foggy memory serves). So it DOES happen.

Generally, most people who become successful in creative endeavors are capable of spotting their own problems in execution; spotting issues with the ideas they're attempting to execute is often tougher. These are trends, not absolutes.

Come to think of it, that's a pretty general principle, isn't it? :D

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:47 pm 
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Didn't Liv Tyler also think that Arwen just shouldn't fight and it actually degraded her character?

I would put Osgiliath under "dubiously conceived, well-executed." The scene with the Nazgûl over the parapets (and no, Frodo is not "offering" the ring!) is visually stunning, one of my favorite shots in the trilogy, and and does a good job portraying the impossibility of Frodo's quest in a single image. So I'm pretty forgiving of that detour.

As for "well-conceived, dubiously-executed", how about nuclear Galadriel? When I watch that scene, I always feel like the voice distortion is what really pushes it into silliness.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:22 am 
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To accommodate the "trends" bit you need Axes, not just quadrants. I will try & make a figure & post it.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:42 am 
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Man, I love the people around here. :love:

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:50 am 
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Inanna wrote:
To accommodate the "trends" bit you need Axes, not just quadrants. I will try & make a figure & post it.


A la the political chart that circulates now and again, right. You're correct, there's variation within each quadrant, and some borderline cases.

This is getting fun. :D

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