Wow. Okay. If that's the sort of thing some of the reviewers have a problem with, we should be okay.
However, I'm much more worried about the cartoony action, inconsequential danger, and dumb dwarf humor stuff they go on about, not the "boring exposition."
All that dialogue sounded rather Tolkienian, and well-delivered. Four great actors in one room. What's not to like?
Shelob'sAppetite wrote:All that dialogue sounded rather Tolkienian
And some of it was. Doesn't "use [him] to terrible effect" come directly from UT? Even if quoting (part of) a single sentence is ok, what about the general idea that Sauron might make use of Smaug? Are they just living dangerously here?
I am somewhat convinced that the 48fps is really spoiling a lot of the reviews at this point. I know that if a film looks naff to me, I have a great deal of difficulty accepting the story as worth watching.
If so, it was a toweringly bad idea to do any press screenings at 48fps. Why oh why did they not learn from Cinema Con? A tin ear, that man has when it comes to his toys.
Shelob'sAppetite wrote:All that dialogue sounded rather Tolkienian
And some of it was. Doesn't "use [him] to terrible effect" come directly from UT? Even if quoting (part of) a single sentence is ok, what about the general idea that Sauron might make use of Smaug? Are they just living dangerously here?
I was thinking the same thing. Is this beyond the bounds of their rights, or do they have a deal with the Tolkien Estate that we are not aware of?
Voronwë the Faithful wrote:Seriously. Terrible. I'm thinking about skipping the movie altogether after that.
If I can hazard a guess, I would say that for fans of Tolkien, Goblintown and an occasional inappropriate dwarf gag will be blights on an otherwise pretty good film. It won't quite be the Hobbit, but it may be a decent,, if dumbed down, representation of what Tolkien's abandoned re-draft might have looked like.
Shelob'sAppetite wrote:All that dialogue sounded rather Tolkienian
And some of it was. Doesn't "use [him] to terrible effect" come directly from UT? Even if quoting (part of) a single sentence is ok, what about the general idea that Sauron might make use of Smaug? Are they just living dangerously here?
I was thinking the same thing. Is this beyond the bounds of their rights, or do they have a deal with the Tolkien Estate that we are not aware of?
I've long speculated about that, as I have mentioned here and elsewhere. With the comments that Jackson made at Comic-con about the Estate not like the films, and the harsh comments that Christopher Tolkien was quoted as saying in Le Monde I was more doubtful, but this stuff really gives me cause. It sure is on the edge, isn't it?
I didn't love Gandalf addressing Galadriel as "my lady" but other than that slight quibble, I thought it was wonderful. But paradoxically, I really do think it is the type of thing that would put off a lot of critics. My optimism about the film is at an all time high.
Edit to add: This new reviewfrom the Village Voice is a perfect example. His main complaint is "Even once Bilbo and company take to the hobbit highway, the pacing is leisurely verging on lethargic." I'm sorry but that isn't a problem for me, if allows stuff like this (not to mention "good morning") to breath. To heck with the critics!
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Dave_LF wrote:
And some of it was. Doesn't "use [him] to terrible effect" come directly from UT? Even if quoting (part of) a single sentence is ok, what about the general idea that Sauron might make use of Smaug? Are they just living dangerously here?
I was thinking the same thing. Is this beyond the bounds of their rights, or do they have a deal with the Tolkien Estate that we are not aware of?
I've long speculated about that, as I have mentioned here and elsewhere. With the comments that Jackson made at Comic-con about the Estate not like the films, and the harsh comments that Christopher Tolkien was quoted as saying in Le Monde I was more doubtful, but this stuff really gives me cause. It sure is on the edge, isn't it?
I didn't love Gandalf addressing Galadriel as "my lady" but other than that slight quibble, I thought it was wonderful. But paradoxically, I really do think it is the type of thing that would put off a lot of critics. My optimism about the film is at an all time high.
Edit to add: This new reviewfrom the Village Voice is a perfect example. His main complaint is "Even once Bilbo and company take to the hobbit highway, the pacing is leisurely verging on lethargic." I'm sorry but that isn't a problem for me, if allows stuff like this (not to mention "good morning") to breath. To heck with the critics!
There is a distinct phenomenon whereby many of these critics seem to get annoyed when the film takes itself too seriously (such as the White Council's "boring exposition.)"
Many who are not Tolkien aficionados simply think that fantasy is juvenile, and therefore, "talking" too much in such films should be dispensed with. Just gives us action and spectacle, and leave the talking to the "Waiting for Godot" adaptations.
It's a little absurd.
However, there are also those complaining of a lot of overdone CGI and juvenile gags. I am more worried about that.
In any event, I am more optimistic today than I was yesterday.
The funny thing that I have seen is that a lot of the same people who pointed to the positive reviews by critics of the LOTR films as validation of those films now castigating the critics for being less enamored overall with AUJ. It really is amusing.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Voronwë the Faithful wrote:The funny thing that I have seen is that a lot of the same people who pointed to the positive reviews by critics of the LOTR films as validation of those films now castigating the critics for being less enamored overall with AUJ. It really is amusing.
That is hilarious. "Listen to the critics! No, screw the critics!" No matter what I think of the film, I will at least be happy about this phenomenon.
I think it might play better in the context of the whole film. My only complaint (you knew there had to be one, no?) is what they have done with our beloved Cate's face. Gah I detest de-aging cgi.
Dennis, I was joking. I thought the clip was wonderful overall (as I said later on in the thread).
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Actually, that doesn't quite do it. I don't mind the look of the Great Goblin, even if he is ridiculously oversized. What I really hate about what I've seen of Goblin town thus far is the awfully video game-esque action. Mind-boggingly bad.
I mean, if I want to play a video game, I will go and do that, and at least be able to control my characters. Not going to sit and watch someone else do that on the big screen for $20.
Shelob'sAppetite wrote:All that dialogue sounded rather Tolkienian
And some of it was. Doesn't "use [him] to terrible effect" come directly from UT? Even if quoting (part of) a single sentence is ok, what about the general idea that Sauron might make use of Smaug? Are they just living dangerously here?
I was thinking the same thing. Is this beyond the bounds of their rights, or do they have a deal with the Tolkien Estate that we are not aware of?
Actually, that's in the appendices also:
But at last there came about by chance a meeting between Gandalf and Thorin that changed all the fortunes of the House of Durin, and led to other and greater ends beside. On a time Thorin, returning west from a journey, stayed at Bree for the night. There Gandalf was also. He was on his way to the Shire, which he had not visited for some twenty years. He was weary, and thought to rest there for a while.
Among many cares he was troubled in mind by the perilous state of the North; because he knew then already that Sauron was plotting war, and intended, as soon as he felt strong enough, to attack Rivendell. But to resist any attempt from the East to regain the lands of Angmar and the northern passes in the mountains there were now only the Dwarves of the Iron Hills. And beyond them lay the desolation of the Dragon. The Dragon Sauron might use with terrible effect. How then could the end of Smaug be achieved?
Voronwë the Faithful wrote:The funny thing that I have seen is that a lot of the same people who pointed to the positive reviews by critics of the LOTR films as validation of those films now castigating the critics for being less enamored overall with AUJ. It really is amusing.
If thhe White Council scene is the type of stuff the critics didn't like, I don't think we fans don't have a thing to worry about.
Love Saruman's dismissive line to Gandalf "Always must you meddle..." which perfectly illustrates Saruman's irritation and petty jealousy towards the Grey Wizard...
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
It's funny to see everyone's hype go back and forth like a pendulum with every new bit of footage (I've barely watched any of it since the second trailer).
Dave_LF wrote:
And some of it was. Doesn't "use [him] to terrible effect" come directly from UT? Even if quoting (part of) a single sentence is ok, what about the general idea that Sauron might make use of Smaug? Are they just living dangerously here?
I was thinking the same thing. Is this beyond the bounds of their rights, or do they have a deal with the Tolkien Estate that we are not aware of?
Actually, that's in the appendices also:
But at last there came about by chance a meeting between Gandalf and Thorin that changed all the fortunes of the House of Durin, and led to other and greater ends beside. On a time Thorin, returning west from a journey, stayed at Bree for the night. There Gandalf was also. He was on his way to the Shire, which he had not visited for some twenty years. He was weary, and thought to rest there for a while.
Among many cares he was troubled in mind by the perilous state of the North; because he knew then already that Sauron was plotting war, and intended, as soon as he felt strong enough, to attack Rivendell. But to resist any attempt from the East to regain the lands of Angmar and the northern passes in the mountains there were now only the Dwarves of the Iron Hills. And beyond them lay the desolation of the Dragon. The Dragon Sauron might use with terrible effect. How then could the end of Smaug be achieved?
Good catch, Al. I had forgotten about that line.
Though I hate to do it, I must join in the chorus of White Council praise. Great stuff there, Peter Jackson (though I think it has largely to do with the simple fact that four of the best actors in the world are in that scene).
I particularly love Lee's work in that scene. He manages to be dismissive, without being evil, despite the fact that we have seen him as becoming evil in the later films (or earlier films, depending on what you mean by later and earlier). That is impressive acting. And all done with green screen, thousands of miles away from the other actors in the scene!
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Voronwë the Faithful wrote:I particularly love Lee's work in that scene. He manages to be dismissive, without being evil, despite the fact that we have seen him as becoming evil in the later films (or earlier films, depending on what you mean by later and earlier). That is impressive acting. And all done with green screen, thousands of miles away from the other actors in the scene!
Agreed. There's also a subtlety to Lee's, Weaving's, Blanchett's and even McKellen's acting that wasn't always present in LOTR, as the "doom and gloom" was often overplayed and overcooked by Jackson. In that sense, the least earnest doom-saying in the Hobbit is going to appeal to me.
