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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:03 pm 
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Sunsilver wrote:
Wow! That Jackson would use a Tolkien scholar to vet the films is awesome! It almost moves me to tears...

Too bad he didn't pay more attention to her.... :nono:


I am not sure, but I don't think it was Jackson, I think it was the studio. She certainly didn't have any interaction with Jackson, or anyone close to him. Interesting that they chose Janet, because she was quite critical of the LOTR films.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:55 pm 
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Maybe the Tolkien family chose her?

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:02 pm 
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Considering that the Tolkien Estate is currently engaged in a lawsuit against WB , I think it unlikely that WB would have the family chose someone for them. ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:24 pm 
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Ah. I've lost track of events over the past year, I'm afraid, and forgotten a lot of what came before. :blackeye:

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:01 am 
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Some of the comments are pretty good:

"One does not simply rock into Mordor"

"There was a time when Saruman would walk in my woods, but now he has a mind of metal"


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:39 am 
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Okay, the more I think about it, the more I disagree with what Jackson did with the troll encounter.

In the book the weather is horrible. Their food and a some ponies were lost to a rain swollen river. Spying a light through the trees seems a solution because as well as losing their food, mischief had got into their fire. They send Bilbo to inspect the light as a test of his burgling skill. Bilbo is captured and the dwarves attack the trolls in turn in spite of having no weapons. After the trolls are turned to stone the party finds food and weapons in the trolls' hoard.

It seems to me much was lost the way the scene played out in the movie, and not much, if anything was gained. In the book, need drove the encounter and providence met that need after a bit of unpleasantness.

I mean what was the point of stopping at a ruined farm in the light of day? Why was the weather clear? They had no need (certainly Fili and Kili weren't even hungry) so in order to affect the encounter, the trolls had to steal the ponies. The light through the trees was known to be a troll's camp which the party might just as well had avoided for the cost of a few ponies. For that matter, the Trolls seemed intelligent enough that they should have noticed a party of 14 attached to a corral of ponies where there had been none before.

Additions to the story are fine with me, but why change a scene that wasn't broken?

:pullhair:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:48 am 
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I quite agree, SirDennis...in fact, I've seen defenders of the Azog plot insertion describing the journey up to that point as "a leisurely stroll!" and I do think that is where Jackson went wrong. In an effort to bring across the lighter tone of TH compared to LotR he has played far too much or laughs and taken away the natural tension created in both the Troll encounter and Goblin Town (as I've mentioned before.)

Apparently kids seeing the film are loving the Ori humour, and Rock'em-Sock'em Stone Giants, etc., but surely they would also enjoy being scared just a little bit? The only true tension we got like that was in the excellent Riddles sequence.

But that's what Tolkien was doing when he wrote TH as a bedtime story for his kids...the way the book reads in the Trolls Encounter, the reader has no idea that Gandalf is playing for time with his ventriloquy until after the sun has dawned and the Trolls have turned into stone. You don't know how Bilbo and the Dwarves are going to avoid being eaten.

Yet in the film it's just a comedic sequence with a bit of sword fighting - no gore, of course, and no real tension...you know Bilbo is going to save the day with his quick thinking. And that's just the overall impression...a deeper look brings to light the inconsistencies that SirD has pointed out. The sequence really doesn't stand up to scrutiny very well...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:26 pm 
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I thought Bilbo negotiating with the trolls was really funny even after my first viewing (where I was a lot harder on the movie than I am now). I do think the action scene is drawn out and kind of perfunctory though.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:02 am 
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Further on the troll sequence, I just remembered the other day that it was about the time they were shooting troll stuff that Rob Kazinsky had to leave the production. He was the original Fili and was replaced by, er, tip of my tongue... Dean O'Gorman!

So I was wondering if maybe the reason the troll sequence seemed so dodgy (to me, anyway) is because they were forced to reshoot and/or rethink what they had originally planned. I wonder too if they were able to use any of the footage they shot while Kazinsky was still Fili.

... just thinking out loud really...


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:10 am 
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Not sure if this is the right thread, but anyway...

Everything Wrong With The Hobbit An Unexpected Journey In 4 Minutes Or Less

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:40 am 
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Check out the Oakentoon by Peckish Owl on Deviant Art.

Claiming to be the "True Story for orthodox Fans," it's what the film might be like if Jackson had kept to the book, with original dialogue!

Most amusing... :rofl:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:13 am 
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Great, there goes my bedtime. :blackeye: Fun stuff. :D

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‘There’s no greys, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.’
‘It’s a lot more complicated than that -’
‘No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.’
Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:33 pm 
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That is truly excellent. Love it!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:50 pm 
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Oh, dear. I'm supposed to get about 12 hours of work done today, and the odds look a lot worse now. . . .

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:18 pm 
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I particularly love Oakentoon #53 Image

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:01 pm 
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SirDennis wrote:
Okay, the more I think about it, the more I disagree with what Jackson did with the troll encounter.

In the book the weather is horrible. Their food and a some ponies were lost to a rain swollen river. Spying a light through the trees seems a solution because as well as losing their food, mischief had got into their fire. They send Bilbo to inspect the light as a test of his burgling skill. Bilbo is captured and the dwarves attack the trolls in turn in spite of having no weapons. After the trolls are turned to stone the party finds food and weapons in the trolls' hoard.

It seems to me much was lost the way the scene played out in the movie, and not much, if anything was gained. In the book, need drove the encounter and providence met that need after a bit of unpleasantness.

I mean what was the point of stopping at a ruined farm in the light of day? Why was the weather clear? They had no need (certainly Fili and Kili weren't even hungry) so in order to affect the encounter, the trolls had to steal the ponies. The light through the trees was known to be a troll's camp which the party might just as well had avoided for the cost of a few ponies. For that matter, the Trolls seemed intelligent enough that they should have noticed a party of 14 attached to a corral of ponies where there had been none before.

Additions to the story are fine with me, but why change a scene that wasn't broken?

:pullhair:


I've had the same exact beef with the troll sequence. It always bothered me that it was broad daylight on a sunny day, when they stopped for the night, Then they are fed, dry, have a fire going, and seem quite comfortable. Then Kili and Fili talk Bilbo into following a path of destruction because of 2 missing ponies to get them back which IMO was also totally unnecessary. (You mean to tell me the dwarfs are that stupid they didn't see or hear anything tearing trees up by their roots and pushing them over) The book had it perfect they had lost most of their supplies, the were wet, tired, it was dark, They spotted a fire in the distance not knowing what it was, so they sent their burglar (something in Jackson's version Bilbo denied and NEVER admitted to) to investigate, maybe get a bit of food, then Bilbo makes a mistake by trying to pinch the purse. which was talking but they could have just had him try and steal a bit of food and get caught in the film.

My thing is when Jackson stuck to Tolkien's work his film was great I loved Baggend which had some minor changes but I think worked. Jackson's film got horrible (in comparison to the book) when he deviated IMO esp with the awful stone giants scene and Goblin town made me sick with all the swirling and sweeping camera shots meant to show off the 3D.

My other problem was the end of Riddles in the dark and the back door.

Why was the back door unguarded? Where were the goblins at the back door?

I think it would have been much better NOT to show Gandalf and the dwarfs going past him and done the Back door like in the book. I hated that Bilbo was just running around blindly trying to get away from Gollum and finds the back door. And the whole exact repeat of Frodo in the Prancing Pony with the ring falling right onto his finger... He was completely lost for gods sake. Gollum should have went back to his island instead of his temper tantrum Jackson makes him have, to get his "birthday present" then as he is gone Bilbo slips on the ring when he hears Gollum scream about it being lost, when gollum arrives he thinks Bilbo really knew the way out, then Bilbo follows him to the exit where he jumps over Gollum then play out the backdoor like in the book. Not really much more time on film maybe 5 minutes more at most. But IMO OHHHHH SO MUCH BETTER than what Jackson gave us.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:21 pm 
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Lord_Morningstar wrote:
I had never seen Lee in action before FotR, and one of the best things about the film, for me, was seeing him bring Saruman to life. I had never really properly envisioned the character before.

Fun fact - he is now branching out into symphonic heavy metal music. He certainly has the voice for it. See, for example, his latest heavy metal Christmas album, featuring what has to be the most badass version of the Little Drummer Boy ever.


*bump*, because this is awesome and it's that time of year again. Best user comment:
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There was a time when Saruman would walk in my woods, but now he has a mind of metal


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:29 pm 
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There is a big difference between actors who play badass characters and those who actually are badass themselves. And Sir Christopher has more of that vibe than the rest of the young and attractive cast, even when he is just sitting still.

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‘There’s no greys, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.’
‘It’s a lot more complicated than that -’
‘No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.’
Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum


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