Book III The Treason of Isengard
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16581203/Red%20Book%20III.avi
Fan Edits Discussion - Book III The Treason of Isengard
Fan Edits Discussion - Book III The Treason of Isengard
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
Thoughts on Book III
Wow. This was just so... different!
We start with the Uruk-hai running down the hill at Amon Hen. Boromir is defending the Hobbits, and gets mortally wounded. Aragorn turns up to kill Lurtz, but in a much less melodramatic fashion. Loved it. We follow the three Hunters to Rohan, cutting all of the "Gimli can't keep up" humour. They meet with Éomer and head to the orc pile at Fangorn. Aragorn reads the tracks and determines that the Hobbits are in Fangorn. All of this is done with no intercuts to hobbit footage.
Then we cut to the Hobbits abduction. All their scenes are now in sequence, with no intercuts. They meet Fangorn, and now things start to get really, really clever. If you didn't know otherwise, this edit would have you believe the Ents chose right first time. Its simply brilliant. During the first walk with Treebeard, they come to the ruined edge of Fangorn, where the tree's have been cut down. This prompts the Entmoot, which still takes forever. We get the Old Man Willow scene, and Merry and Pippins "There won't be a Shire to go home to" speech, and then finally the Ents decide to March on Isengard. Its as close to flawless as you can get given the footage. Simply brilliant.
We cut back to the Three Hunters meeting Gandalf, and on to Rohan. The "exorcism" is gone. Gandalf says "I release you from this spell" and Éowyn runs to Théoden and we see him turn young again. Once again, brilliant. They head to Helms Deep, we have the Dwarf Beards and an edited down Stew scene, but no Warg attack, no Evenstar stuff and no Cliff Dive or horse snogging. Helms Deep is shorter, and more effective for it. No Elves at HD, no Olympic Torch runner, no shield surfing, no "Dwarf tossing" line, although we do get the scene. The counting game is intact, but without the "Central Nervous System" line. Gandalf and Éomer turn up to save the day and the impossible charge is still there (which I always liked anyway). We get the Huorns scene and are cut back to the Ents attacking Isengard. This plays out much as the movie, but it doesn't end here.
Flotsam and Jestam and The Voice of Saruman are moved forward from RotK to their rightful spot. Saruman gets his dues, and Pippin gets the palantír. Back in Meduseld we have Éowyn swooning over Aragorn, the Hobbits table dance, but no drinking game. Eowyns wave dream is in. Pippins scene with the palantír happens, but no vision of the White Tree burning. The Film ends with Gandalf and Pippin riding to Minas Tirith.
This was just awesome. Really, it makes you wonder how good the movies could have been if they just trusted the source material enough.
Wow. This was just so... different!
We start with the Uruk-hai running down the hill at Amon Hen. Boromir is defending the Hobbits, and gets mortally wounded. Aragorn turns up to kill Lurtz, but in a much less melodramatic fashion. Loved it. We follow the three Hunters to Rohan, cutting all of the "Gimli can't keep up" humour. They meet with Éomer and head to the orc pile at Fangorn. Aragorn reads the tracks and determines that the Hobbits are in Fangorn. All of this is done with no intercuts to hobbit footage.
Then we cut to the Hobbits abduction. All their scenes are now in sequence, with no intercuts. They meet Fangorn, and now things start to get really, really clever. If you didn't know otherwise, this edit would have you believe the Ents chose right first time. Its simply brilliant. During the first walk with Treebeard, they come to the ruined edge of Fangorn, where the tree's have been cut down. This prompts the Entmoot, which still takes forever. We get the Old Man Willow scene, and Merry and Pippins "There won't be a Shire to go home to" speech, and then finally the Ents decide to March on Isengard. Its as close to flawless as you can get given the footage. Simply brilliant.
We cut back to the Three Hunters meeting Gandalf, and on to Rohan. The "exorcism" is gone. Gandalf says "I release you from this spell" and Éowyn runs to Théoden and we see him turn young again. Once again, brilliant. They head to Helms Deep, we have the Dwarf Beards and an edited down Stew scene, but no Warg attack, no Evenstar stuff and no Cliff Dive or horse snogging. Helms Deep is shorter, and more effective for it. No Elves at HD, no Olympic Torch runner, no shield surfing, no "Dwarf tossing" line, although we do get the scene. The counting game is intact, but without the "Central Nervous System" line. Gandalf and Éomer turn up to save the day and the impossible charge is still there (which I always liked anyway). We get the Huorns scene and are cut back to the Ents attacking Isengard. This plays out much as the movie, but it doesn't end here.
Flotsam and Jestam and The Voice of Saruman are moved forward from RotK to their rightful spot. Saruman gets his dues, and Pippin gets the palantír. Back in Meduseld we have Éowyn swooning over Aragorn, the Hobbits table dance, but no drinking game. Eowyns wave dream is in. Pippins scene with the palantír happens, but no vision of the White Tree burning. The Film ends with Gandalf and Pippin riding to Minas Tirith.
This was just awesome. Really, it makes you wonder how good the movies could have been if they just trusted the source material enough.
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
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Voronwë the Faithful
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I liked a lot of this. The Ent sequence was quite well done, and the Voice of Saruman was much better in its rightful spot. Overall, I liked having the stories grouped together rather than constantly intercut, and once again, many (but not all) of the worst abuses are removed. Some of it seems choppy and awkward, but overall it is skillfully done. However, I thought it was silly to excise the Elves from Helms Deep (but keep Éomer's arrival; that was just as much "not in the book"). And while it is nice to not have the whole ridiculous Warg sequence and Aragorn's "fall" it results in not only losing the wonderful sequence with Arwen by Aragorn's deathbed but, more importantly, making Aragorn's scenes with Éowyn mean something that they don't really mean. Watching this without knowing better, one would definitely think that he and Éowyn are both falling in love with each other. That's an example of trying to make it more like the book actually makes it less like the book.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
This was so different from Peter Jackson’s movies that I enjoyed it a lot more than the first two “Books”. It was rushed but I no longer had the feeling of using the skip/fast-forward button.
Jumping straight into Boromir’s last stand didn’t work for me: there should’ve been more build-up to it such as showing Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli fighting or, more preferably, the moment when Boromir comes to Merry and Pippins rescue.
Apart from two quibbles, I was surprised how well the rearrangement of the Ent scenes worked. The Ent-draught scene seemed far too light-hearted after the seriousness of seeing Fangorn deforested and Saruman’s army leaving Isengard. Treebeard telling the Hobbits to go home didn’t work either; it came out of the blue and had no follow-through.
I don't agree with the decision to remove Théoden crying by his son’s grave. The scene had been building to that emotion and it never came.
Another bad decision was cutting those two refugee children from the Westfold. Without them Gandalf’s warnings about the terror Saruman would unleash had no context. And how does Théoden know to prepare for a siege at Helm’s Deep? He had had no warning that Saruman’s army was coming.
I didn’t like the jump from Legolas and Gimli comparing tallies to the Ents attacking Isengard.
The Voice of Saruman sequence is better as an ending than a beginning, but I would’ve preferred it if he’d cut that fireball as well! All the post-Isengard scenes at the end (i.e. the celebration in Meduseld and Pippin looking into the palantír) didn’t work for me. Peter Jackson was right to leave them for Return of the King. (I do understand why they were left in this edit.)
Jumping straight into Boromir’s last stand didn’t work for me: there should’ve been more build-up to it such as showing Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli fighting or, more preferably, the moment when Boromir comes to Merry and Pippins rescue.
Apart from two quibbles, I was surprised how well the rearrangement of the Ent scenes worked. The Ent-draught scene seemed far too light-hearted after the seriousness of seeing Fangorn deforested and Saruman’s army leaving Isengard. Treebeard telling the Hobbits to go home didn’t work either; it came out of the blue and had no follow-through.
I don't agree with the decision to remove Théoden crying by his son’s grave. The scene had been building to that emotion and it never came.
Another bad decision was cutting those two refugee children from the Westfold. Without them Gandalf’s warnings about the terror Saruman would unleash had no context. And how does Théoden know to prepare for a siege at Helm’s Deep? He had had no warning that Saruman’s army was coming.
I didn’t like the jump from Legolas and Gimli comparing tallies to the Ents attacking Isengard.
The Voice of Saruman sequence is better as an ending than a beginning, but I would’ve preferred it if he’d cut that fireball as well! All the post-Isengard scenes at the end (i.e. the celebration in Meduseld and Pippin looking into the palantír) didn’t work for me. Peter Jackson was right to leave them for Return of the King. (I do understand why they were left in this edit.)
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Voronwë the Faithful
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I look forward to hearing what you think of the rest. I thought it got better and better.
On a side note, do you know that Tom Shippey is going to be speaking in Cardiff on March 23?
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2011/03 ... m-shippey/
On a side note, do you know that Tom Shippey is going to be speaking in Cardiff on March 23?
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2011/03 ... m-shippey/
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
I didn't know that.Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:... On a side note, do you know that Tom Shippey is going to be speaking in Cardiff on March 23? ...
If he'd been talking about Lord of the Rings (or something else Middle-earth related) I'd have probably been disappointed that I wasn't able to attend the lecture.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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