Hobbit 3D Related discussion

For discussion of the upcoming films based on The Hobbit and related material, as well as previous films based on Tolkien's work
N.E. Brigand
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Post by N.E. Brigand »

axordil wrote:I hadn't really considered the silent/sound issue--but that underlines rather than undercuts the argument. Integrating sound into storytelling took a good decade--which is why the 30s are full of filmed stage plays that look like, well, filmed stage plays. Great scripts in some cases, but not very movie-ish by modern standards.
Chronological snobbery? Maybe modern films are not very movie-ish by 1930s standards.

Or perhaps we simply disagree. In my opinion, it took less than five years for filmmakers to overcome the challenges of working with a noisy camera and poor recording and sound-editing equipment, and recovery the fluidity they had achieved well before the advent of sound, with the first great sound film being M from 1931.
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Elentári
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Post by Elentári »

Hobbits on Red Epics.
Peter Jackson's two film adaptation of The Hobbit will be shot in 3D using RED DIGITAL CINEMA'S soon to be released EPIC Digital Cameras.

The successor to RED's industry changing RED ONE, the EPIC has 5K resolution, can shoot up to 120 frames per second and has a new HDRx™™ mode for the highest dynamic range of any digital cinema camera ever made. Taking everything they had learned from building their first camera, RED designed the EPIC from scratch and have produced a smaller, lighter camera that is an order of magnitude more powerful.

The Hobbit will be amongst the first productions in the world to use the EPIC and at least thirty cameras will be required by the 3-D production. The EPIC'S small size and relatively low weight, makes it perfect for 3-D - where two cameras have to be mounted on each 3D rig.

Since this means nothing to me, here's the link to Telemachos'opinion on TORC
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Primula Baggins
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Post by Primula Baggins »

Assuming he's right about the resolution (and as I recall he knows his stuff) this will be very good from a resolution standpoint. I also just saw the Harry Potter movie and found some of the obvious "maybe this will be in 3D so let's throw stuff at their faces" shots to be intrusive. The film survived it, as far as I was concerned. I hope PJ can avoid the temptation to make so many 3D "money shots" that people choosing or only able to see it in 2D can't still enjoy it and can't still see sharp resolution.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Primula Baggins
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Post by Primula Baggins »

This morning I asked my son if he'd heard about PJ choosing these cameras (he's in his third year of film school, majoring in film production/cinematography). I sent him this link, which includes an embedded trailer for a short film PJ shot with a version of the camera. His response:
Yeah, I didn't know he had 30 though.That's nuts.

I've actually worked with that camera a lot (not the 3D rig, but it's the same thing), it's frustrating in a lot of ways but ultimately is going to be an industry standard camera for a long time.

One thing that's funny though: It says he shot that short film recently. Well, it was years and years ago when Red only had a couple prototypes of the first version of their camera (which is a piece of garbage compared to the current one). They sent Jackson a prototype because he asked if he could do some camera tests. Turns out, by some camera tests, he meant shoot a whole short film. They didn't mind the publicity.

Yeah, the new version of the camera is absolutely awesome. It starts to actually get a film look with the dynamic range, especially in the highlights. The old version looks good, but the new one looks much, much better. The Hobbit is going to look awesome.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Elentári
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Post by Elentári »

Oh Boy...

Jackson is shooting The Hobbit in 47.96 frames per second with the previously reported 30 RED Epic cameras.
The best way to describe it, is to quote Cameron: “If watching a 3D movie is like looking through a window, then [with this] we’ve taken the glass out of the window and we’re staring at reality.”
Reaction, please, from anyone who understands this!
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Primula Baggins
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Post by Primula Baggins »

This is a digital camera (essentially a video camera). The more frames per second, the smoother the action appears and the sharper the image looks. With that and the high dynamic range, which has been a problem with digital (hard to get an image with very bright areas and very dark areas that looks right), you get something that looks like film. Film is analog and so has incredible detail; my son says a good 35-mm film camera has resolution about 4 times as good as Blu-Ray. This approximates that quality without the big drawbacks of film: its vulnerability until it's processed, the problem with storing it safely once it is processed, and the difficulty of editing it.

These days even with film they do the editing digitally (scanning the pieces of film into digital storage and then editing on a computer, which is hugely easier). But the physical film master still has to be physically cut together from the physical films of the various takes. That's automated now, but it's still much more cumbersome than having the entire process be digital from start to finish.

Even now, for most theaters a physical film reel has to be generated, printed off by thousands, and mailed to the theaters, which is all enormously expensive. Digital projection in theaters will eliminate that obstacle as well, once it's universal.

(I owe all this to my son in the business; mistakes and misconceptions are mine. :blackeye: )
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Elentári
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Post by Elentári »

Thanks, Prim :)

But actually, I was wondering whether this is a good thing for The Hobbit or not - the initial reaction on TORn was that it's bad news!
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
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Primula Baggins
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Post by Primula Baggins »

Maybe it's because digital cameras still have a bad reputation. Some digital films look muddy and not very sharp because of the less expensive/less advanced cameras that were used. The LotR movies were shot on film, and people may be afraid there will be a visible decrease in image quality with the Hobbit.

From what these articles say (and my son, too), though, it won't be a problem.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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