Thank you all for coming to my party! I'm delighted to discover that there are others who also miss movie discussions. I didn't find TORC until just after ROTK was released, and even then it took months before I could pluck up the courage to post. So I sorta feel cheated
because I wasn't able to indulge my thoroughly addictive nature and analyse each film in excruciating detail.
I beg indulgence from all of those who have been there/done that/thrown the tee shirt away .... but to the deprived m00bs among us .... I say we should take up the sword and press on.
Once more into the breach, dear friends ....
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Mossy wrote:
I also didn't care for the obligatory women-huddling-fear shots. However, in PJ's defense, the women of Rohan didn't fight in the books either.
True. But (alongside my own distaste for ineffectual women in a
warrior culture!).... I base my complaint on yet another script inconsistency .... think back to Éowyn's sparring scene with Aragorn when she says,
Women of this country learned long ago: Those without swords may still die upon them!
To me those words indicate that the women of Rohan are not only familiar with weaponry but are also able to use those weapons in their own defense if necessary.
She's too gentle. She doesn't seem in any way tempered with steel except in that one scene with Aragorn. Instead, she was made into a lovelorn and somewhat petulant noblewoman. The whole Dernhelm thing seems out of the blue and more a response to unrequited love than anything else.
Petulant noblewoman indeed!
I might agree with you except that I did get a sense of rigidity holding Éowyn upright when the world around her was disintegrating. Concerning your second point, I would argue that it is filmically consistent for the sudden appearance of Dernhelm to be due mostly to the despair of an unrequited love. I always thought that was so in the book, too.
Voronwë wrote:
Sass, I have carefully gone through your post, and I'm sorry to say that I can't find a damn thing to disagree with.
Try harder!
Eru wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by the softening of Boromir though. Can you explain?
<This really should be an entire thread!>
Voronwë gave the example of Boromir teaching swordplay to the hobbits. Another is the conversation with Aragorn in Lothlórien:
Boromir:
My father is a noble man, but his rule is failing. And now our…our people lose faith. He looks to me to make things right and I— I would do it. I would see the glory of Gondor restored. <sigh> Have you ever seen it Aragorn? The White Tower of Ecthelion, glimmering like a spike of pearl and silver. Its banners caught high in the morning breeze. Have you ever been called home by the clear ringing of silver trumpets?
Aragorn:
I have seen the White City, long ago.
Boromir:
One day, our paths will lead us there. And the tower guard shall take up the call: "The Lords of Gondor have returned!"
Not so much WHAT he said but rather in the measured, almost wistful manner way in which he says the words. BookBoromir is a proud, willfull man; cognizant of his nobility, who falls to the Ring precisely because of his rigidity. He does not question his ambition; he does not doubt. He is internally inflexible and because he cannot bend ... he easily falls prey to the Ring's seduction.
PJ softens and humanizes Boromir. He becomes sympathetic and we like him. The problem with this, with the changes to Faramir, there is no contrast and no way to distinguish between the brothers.
I don't think there is a discrepancy. Hobbits are supposed to be more resilient and less affected by the Ring,
One word: Gollum.
the diminishment of Gandalf in ROTK
<Another subject for a new thread.>
Think of it like this: Much of TTT was devoted to building up
The White Rider. Gandalf has undergone a spiritual transformation through death and rebirth. He is
sent back stronger than before and is
Saruman as he should have been........ In ROTK Gandalf is systematically rendered superfluous. (V. gave examples) His authority and his decisiveness diminished in order to elevate Aragorn and show him worthy of the crown. IM
NSHO, the logic of the films (and the book) is subverted and, adding insult to injury, is entirely unecessary. The relationship between Gandalf and Aragorn is synergistic .... they work together for the common purpose of defeating Sauron. There is no need to raise up Aragorn at Gandalf's expense.
<Phillipa really should have put her foot down and prevented this travesty. It really is antithetical to Tolkien's universe.>
Alatar, my TORC twin. Glad you are here!
The remarkable re-appearing Glamdring.
Indeed. That gives me a little stutter every time I watch. Luckily it isn't more than a minor infraction .... mostly because the music is a powerful complement to that scene.
Ah, Horse and the Rider.
How could I have neglected to praise one of my all time favourite scenes? It still raises goosebumps. Even now. Even after all of this time.
Primmy wrote:
But I suppose as we're really discussing TTT, I should be posting some infuriating views on Faramir.
<taps foot>
I'm waiting .....
Hobby 
Cerin
Squeeee. I have to admit I love the way the other Fellowshippers take care of the Rohan ruffians while Gandalf strides unconcernedly forward.
Would you care to explain yourself, young lady?
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eta: Ath!
<hums a few bars>
Seems like old times, eh?
Movie thread! 
and 
