The Two Towers re-redux

[Cerin]

vison, when I first heard of the Bean casting, I hated it, too (not yet then being a Sean fan). I thought it was nothing like the correct physicality (he is not a large man), but of course, the whole family appearance was changed, I think to match one another, with the prominent feature being the large schnozollas and similar coloring.

But most of all, I find the constant casting of Bean as the troublemaker to be so tiresome, and there it was again. So obvious; need a bad guy? Call the Bean.

However, after making some peace with the first film (largely in part due to my new found appreciation for Bean), I think it is probably his best film performance. (I'm not all that crazy about him as an actor; though not knowing anything about that period of wartime, I think he's wonderful as Sharpe if your primary interest is a bit of romance).


Prim, how interesting that you didn't believe in book Faramir.

*makes pouty face*

[Primula Baggins]

Greatly though it pains me to confess it, I have <cough> been infected with modern literary sensibilities.

Believe me, I'm not proud of it.

[TheTennisBallKid]

I missed these discussions.

Me too.



So...am I the only one with a perverse desire to see the original cut of the film, the one with AAHD and all? I still wonder what the last two films would look like if that hadn't altered their timelines so much...



TTBK

[Cerin]

So...am I the only one with a perverse desire to see the original cut of the film, the one with AAHD and all? I still wonder what the last two films would look like if that hadn't altered their timelines so much...

speechless with horror at the thought


I think what I'd want is the same thing I did with the movies. Send you to watch it and report back in great detail.

[Pearly Di]

Prim, I confess to finding the Google advert about the fart button funny. Sorry.

Sean Bean is NOT the world's greatest actor. But Boromir IS his finest hour. And I loved Sharpe. So ner ner ner.

I'd be happy to have Aragorn's sweaty hankie ... er, anywhere near me.

Now it's time for some sober literary analysis.

Book Faramir IS perhaps a little too perfect.

HE'S ALSO SO HOT I COULD DIE, OMG.



Was that intellectual enough?

PS. TennisBall, I wouldn't mind seeing the Arwen at HD scenes either. Just out of morbid curiousity.

[MithLuin]

At the end of the day, my opinion of this movie has to be that I am very glad to have seen it, and I think it is incredibly moving in places. Yes, some scenes make me cringe. Some scenes make me shout at the TV, "YOU DIDN't SAY/DO/THINK/REMOTELY IMAGINE THAT!" But all of my criticisms have to be taken with one grain of salt - I do like it, after all!

If I ever made a movie, it wouldn't be very funny, I take it. I base this on the fact that I would not include dwarves rolling down hills or being tossed, I would not specify that any character needed to belch or fart at a given time, and would basicly neglect any form of bodily humor. What I find funny is verbal sparring, so that is what I would likely indulge in. I might be tempted to include a single instance of situational comedy ("This couldn't possibly get any worse...") [or is that called pathetic fallacy? Whichever - I like it in small doses.]

I cannot fault PJ for doing this differently than I would. After all, Shakespeare also did things differently, and I never would have written his plays. But I will say that I do not fail to cringe at these times - when Gimli's chainmail is too long, for instance.

To compensate, I find humor where it was not intended. Legolas is horrified to discover Arwen's necklace in the orc's hand (the one who says "he took a little tumble off the cliff"). My sister once remarked that Legolas was horrified to discover: "Arwen's dating an orc?" And hence, I can't watch that scene w/o laughing, now. This would be most people's reaction to the "scrubbing bubbles" in Minas Tirith, I guess....

I can complain about banality (not that I find the entire film to be that way, mind you!) but what actually bugs me is defamation of character. I don't mind them building people up, making them a bit more likable (TTT Gollum, Boromir). But I do take offense at "ents are boring and callous," "Elrond is a manipulative bastard of a father," or (yes, yes, I know...) "Faramir is a whiny ugly wimp with no backbone and no redeeming qualities."

Yeah, I know that reaction is fairly overboard. But my 12-year-old self fell for him (Faramir, that is - not Elrond or Treebeard), and you can't destroy someone's first love with impunity, you know? I dislike practically everything about film-Faramir (with a few exceptions). In the EE, they at least explain him, but I still don't like him. And I know I can be flayed alive in some quarters for finding him unattractive, but if you saw what my ex-bf's looked like, you'd be more understanding (in the sense that there is no accounting for taste, I mean ) Luckily, my older self swoons for Frodo (while reading the book, I mean), and I have few complaints about Elijah Wood.

I dislike certain aspects of Théoden's character, but I think that overall he was very good. Therefore, I am more charitable about what I perceive as flaws. For a dead guy, Boromir has more scenes in the 2nd and 3rd movies than you would think....but really, complaints about him probably don't need to show up in a TTT thread.

The visuals and the music are great. I find it easier to be complacent about the dialogue when I like what I am looking at . Costumes are beautiful, scenery is beautiful (well, okay, not the sweeping fields of Rohan...but everything else), props are spot on. There is a lot to like!

[Primula Baggins]

I appreciate the lack of color grading in daylit Rohan. It's refreshing to see actual sunlight and all the bright banners. The battle of Helm's Deep is too blue, almost monochromatic.

[vison]

The scenery was fabulous throughout. A good friend of mine went to New Zealand in 2004 and visited all the Holy Sites and she took photos and my word, what a lovely, lovely place. Even the bare, rocky bits.

I didn't much like the "sets" though, finding Minas Tirith particularly objectionable.

The fields of Rohan were perfect, and the set of Edoras/Meduseld very nifty.

Overall, with TTT as with the other two, it was the TONE that troubled me. I thought the story was cheapened and dumbed down and could have forgiven nearly any plot manipulation if PJ had managed, somehow, to convey the lofty beauty and majesty of Tolkien's tale. That was the failure, for me.

I was given the deluxe complete with all extras DVD's for Christmas of 2004 and have not watched them yet, not all the way through. Dribs and drabs here and there. So I suppose I shouldn't complain about the movies.

[Primula Baggins]

Overall, with TTT as with the other two, it was the TONE that troubled me. I thought the story was cheapened and dumbed down and could have forgiven nearly any plot manipulation if PJ had managed, somehow, to convey the lofty beauty and majesty of Tolkien's tale. That was the failure, for me.

I was given the deluxe complete with all extras DVD's for Christmas of 2004 and have not watched them yet, not all the way through. Dribs and drabs here and there. So I suppose I shouldn't complain about the movies.

You have every right to complain about the movies as much as you like. Some people have found that they liked the films better when they watched them on DVD—because time had passed, or because things seemed more forgiveable on a small screen, I don't know. And of course this is just some people. (Also, I think all three EEs are an improvement.)

For me, the films did convey "the lofty beauty and majesty of Tolkien's tale"—much of the time. I really wish, though, that PJ had not ever felt it necessary to puncture the mood with tasteless humor and anachronistic dialogue. It's as if he's afraid the cool kids will laugh at him if he's "lofty" for too long.

[Alatar]

So am I the only person who hates the Elven Teleconference?

[Primula Baggins]

Not at all! Bleh.

[Cerin]

I agree it's cheesy, corny and facile, but what else could they have done having decided they were going to have elves at Helm's Deep?

You see, one bad decision leads to another, and pretty soon we have an avalanche (of another sort).

[vison]

Precisely.

[truehobbit]

LOL - Voronwë and Mossy - I guess I'm one of the most untranscendental people around here, so that might explain it!

Ath - I think that could be a good explanation - but it's way over my head!

Hi Mith!

Rohan was way too dried out and barren. Horses would just starve in that area.

I never minded the Elven tele-conference! I just never took it literally, until people on TORC talked about it as if there had been a real conference going on. I just took it as a flashback or summary of some conversation or something (not that I really thought about it long enough to explain it) - you know like, when in a movie a character gets a letter and instead of seeing the recipient read it, you hear the writer of the letter speak it.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I loved the fact that they named it "The Story Foreseen from Lórien" as a nod to HoME. Other then that, I agree that it was contrived and kind of silly.

[Primula Baggins]

Hobby, the color of Rohan didn't bother me—in the American West there's a lot of fine grazing land that looks brown like that during the winter and early spring, which this was (at least in the book). And geographically, Rohan is the same kind of interior plain, protected by mountains from wet marine weather that would keep things green year-round. Presumably Rohan would look nicely green in late spring and early summer, but we don't see it at that time of year.

The teleconference—don't we see Elrond reacting to what Galadriel is saying? And Galadriel herself couldn't know the things she says without some kind of remote sensing. How does she know Frodo and Sam are in Faramir's hands?

But my memory may be off, because this is one of the bits where I allow myself to fast-forward.

[Sassafras]

One of my moments is Galadriel saying,

The quest will claim his life. You know this. You have foreseen it. It is the risk we all took.

and I'm thinking, "Erm, no. Not exactly ... he survives, you know and sails west on the same ship as both of you!"

So much for elven foresight.

[vison]

Oh, but Sassafras, the Ship is a metaphor for Death, didn't you know? At least for Frodo.

I nearly wrote Fordo.

Actually, I think from now on I will refer, in my own mind (such as it is) to m00vie-Frodo as Fordo and save myself a lot of anguish.

On several other LOTR-related websites the sturm und drang over what Frodo's trip to the Grey West meant!!! Holy smokes.

Kidding aside, the Quest did "claim" Frodo's life.

But not Fordo's, apparently.

[Sassafras]

Well, yes .... but after the fact, as it were. The way Galadriel makes her pronouncement all laden with portent and doom, one would think (had one NOT read the book) that Frodo (Fordo ) will die upon the slopes of Mount Doom.

After all, Peter Jackson is not known for his extreme subtlety.

<except in the Voronwë and Athrabeth households, that is>



<ducks>

[Primula Baggins]

He is capable of subtlety. I'll argue that up one side and down the other. There are some marvelously subtle bits in the films.

But he does not, shall we say, practice it consistently.