EMPIRE MAGAZINE JUNE 2009 GDT & PJ TALK HOBBIT

Post by **Ellienor** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:10 pm

I believe the purists for the Hobbit will be even more disappointed than the purists for LOTR.

Post by **Padme** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:31 pm

I agree Ellienor. I think that The Hobbit is going to need to be changed a great deal in tone to keep it in line with the other movies, making it darker in many aspects. And I think if one goes into it with the thought it will be a childrens movie, one will be greatly disappointed.

Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:43 pm

One doesn't have to want The Hobbit to be a children's movie to want it to have a different feel than LOTR. Even removing the sillier elements of the book (I'm sure there won't be any tralalalaing Elves, nor should their be), The Hobbit is a different book than LOTR with different themes and a different purpose. Those themes are NOT childish but if they get subsumed in an effort to tie these films to the existing LOTR films than it no longer is an adaptation of The Hobbit (an important book in its own right), and it becomes nothing more than a moneymaking enterprise. That certainly is true of most films made by Hollywood studios, particularly those that are part of blockbuster hit series, but there is also nothing wrong with hoping for more than that.

The reason why I am encouraged by GdT's participation in this project is that he has made a number of statements over the past year that indicate that he is interested in exploring those themes, whereas PJ's comments have not given me as much confidence.

Post by **solicitr** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:54 pm

Well, it did look pretty. And that's not a slam: the cinematography, production design, costumes, props, f/x, score and (most of the) casting were wonderful. Certain scenes were glorious.

Unfortunately, these were all placed at the service of an often horrible screenplay. My biggest fear for Hobbit is not of course the work of WETA or Howard Shore, but the fact that the writing crew of Jackson, Walsh and Boyens will be permitted to recidivize. My hope is that GdT will be permitted enough auteur's latitude to counter this trend, since his interviews to date reveal a far, far better and nuanced understanding of Tolkien than the PBJ team ever possessed.

Post by **Padme** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:24 pm

V-Man

I agree with what your are saying. My intent was not to say The Hobbit isn't a good stand alone book, my thought is that if PJ wants to tie into the same feel and look as the other movies a good deal of what The Hobbit is will be lost. I think you are right about GdT, this is why I was so enthusiastic about him being brought on board. He has a way of understanding stories and the emotional connection and the correlation between the two.

And many people I know consider The Hobbit a children’s story, even though many of them have never read any of it, but they include LoTR as a childrens/tweens/teen book because its a fantasy.

Post by **Frelga** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:08 pm

solicitr wrote:Well, it did look pretty. And that's not a slam: the cinematography, production design, costumes, props, f/x, score and (most of the) casting were wonderful. Certain scenes were glorious.

Well, yes. Some were glorious, made perfect sense, and were consistent (not necessarily literally transferred) with the story, and those were the best. Bag End comes to mind.

Post by **axordil** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:38 pm

I'm sure there won't be any tralalalaing Elves, nor should their be

Why not? The Woodland Elves were, compared to their loftier brethren, fairly happy in ME. I think an indication of such wouldn't be out of line.

Post by **Frelga** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:39 pm

axordil wrote:
I'm sure there won't be any tralalalaing Elves, nor should their be
Why not? The Woodland Elves were, compared to their loftier brethren, fairly happy in ME. I think an indication of such wouldn't be out of line.

Post by **solicitr** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:41 pm

Well, except that the tra-la-la-ing was being done by the "lofty" Noldor of Rivendell.

Post by **Holbytla** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:52 pm

Think of most written sentences you have read. Well sentences in which someone was speaking anyway.Now listen to someone saying that same sentence with varying inflections and tone.
Surely there is more than one way to tra-la-la-laly.

I imagine a good many of the singing poety recitation will be removed from the film.

Kind of a pity because I would love to see a rendition of;

Chip the glasses and crack the plates!

Blunt the knives and bend the forks!

That's what Bilbo Baggins hates -

Smash the bottles and burn the corks!

Al I know what you mean about the lighting. I do think Moria and Shelob's lair lost something in the transition to the screen, but I don't know if there is a lot that could have been done about that.

I am hoping Mirkwood will be different because it wasn't totally dark. I am thinking that may be easier to replicate. Hoping anyway.

Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:28 pm

solicitr wrote:Well, except that the tra-la-la-ing was being done by the "lofty" Noldor of Rivendell.

Quite true. Plus, the filmmakers (particularly Jackson) are indicating that they plan to play up the "White Council" concept of LOTR, which presumably will include some of those lofty Noldor of Rivendell, even though in The Hobbit itself it was the "White Wizards" that drove the Necromancer out of Dol Guldur, and Elrond himself was not at all involved and didn't learn of the result until Gandalf told him when he Bilbo stopped off at Rivendell on their way back to Bag End.

Post by **axordil** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:29 pm

solicitr wrote:Well, except that the tra-la-la-ing was being done by the "lofty" Noldor of Rivendell.

I always assumed the tra-la-la-ing was done by hired Woodland Elf minstrels, actually.

Post by **ToshoftheWuffingas** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:33 pm

"...And Elves, sir! Elves here, and Elves there! Some like kings, terrible and splendid; and some as merry as children. And the music and the singing....."

Post by **Frelga** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:35 pm

Exactly! Elves are not all constipated chipmunks.

Post by **sauronsfinger** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:00 am

Anyone who advocates a bunch of merry Elves prancing happily through the woods singing tra-la-la has not watched late night TV and how a sarcastic monologue can destroy the public perception of a film in just a few minutes. There is a very good reason why lots of the book Sam and Frodo scenes were underplayed in the trilogy.

Post by **Padme** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:06 am

They wouldn't have to be tra-la-la-ling goofy elves, just not such up tight elves who know how to laugh and sing. I think it would be neat to see an elf party where we see a more relaxed type of elf.

Post by **Elentári** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:29 am

Padme wrote:

I think it would be neat to see an elf party where we see a more relaxed type of elf.

At least that's what we should get in Mirkwood with the Silvan Elves!

Post by **Pearly Di** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:38 pm

Frelga wrote:Exactly! Elves are not all constipated chipmunks.

That neatly sums up what I've learned in nine happy years of Tolkien fandom.

Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:50 pm

Elentári wrote:Padme wrote:
I think it would be neat to see an elf party where we see a more relaxed type of elf.
At least that's what we should get in Mirkwood with the Silvan Elves!

We could get it in Rivendell, too. Just not quite the way that Tolkien described in the book.

Post by **Padme** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:58 pm

I agree with V-man here. Just because Vulcans and Elves have pointy ears doesn't make them both unemotional. I think we have been watching too much Spock and think all pointy eared people are purely logical.