Most missed movie moment

[yovargas]

What is the #1 book scene that isn't in movie but you wish was?
(I've been curious because people often get mad add stuff added because it took away time from other things.)

I'm going to be keeping tally of how many votes the Ghân-buri-Ghân get.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

The Ghân-buri-Ghân?

Without a doubt, the most important book scene left out of the films was Gollum's near repentance at the stairs of Cirith Ungol, foiled by Sam's failure to recognize the change in him. That it was replaced with the horrible Lembas/Sam, go home scene just makes it worse.

[Frelga]

Without a doubt, the most important book scene left out of the films was Gollum's near repentance at the stairs of Cirith Ungol, foiled by Sam's failure to recognize the change in him. That it was replaced with the horrible Lembas/Sam, go home scene just makes it worse.

Although I differ with V on the evaluation of Sam's role, IIRC.

In general, I would have loved to see the characters and subplots missing from the movie - Old Forest, Tom Bombadil, Barrowights, Ghân-buri-Ghân, The Scouring. But I can't say I miss them from the movie - the timeline works for the most part. Like V, I miss the scenes that are not in the movie due to changes, not omissions. In no order:

Sam and Frodo facing Shelob's tunnel together
Aragorn actually mastering the palantír
Denethor as a stern and noble lord, and the subsequent descent into madness

But the one thing I wish was in the movie, although I understand why it wasn't, is the arrival of reinforcements to Minas Tirith. What a chance to show the expanse and diversity of Gondor!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

We may need a separate Shibboleth thread to discuss it, but I'm intensely interested to learn in what way you disagree with my (and, apparently, Tolkien's, since he agrees with me) evaluation of Sam's role in foiling Gollum's repentance, Frelga.

[Frelga]

V, as I recall this has come up before. In a nutshell, I don't think it's fair to blame Sam since Gollum has already betrayed the hobbits by that time, and no amount of kindness from Sam could change that. But feel free to start a thread.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I posted in an already existing thread in the Letters forum, here. I hope you will comment there.

[Alatar]

Well, since we're talking about a movie, I'm going to pick something Cinematic. Something PJ and Weta should have been unable to resist.

Up he went and sat upon the ancient chair, feeling like a lost child that had clambered upon the throne of mountain-kings.

At first he could see little. He seemed to be in a world of mist in which there were only shadows: the Ring was upon him. Then here and there the mist gave way and he saw many visions: small and clear as if they were under his eyes upon a table, and yet remote. There was no sound, only bright living images. The world seemed to have shrunk and fallen silent. He was sitting upon the Seat of Seeing, on Amon Hen, the Hill of the Eye of the Men of Númenor. Eastward he looked into wide uncharted lands, nameless plains, and forests unexplored. Northward he looked, and the Great River lay like a ribbon beneath him, and the Misty Mountains stood small and hard as broken teeth. Westward he looked and saw the broad pastures of Rohan; and Orthanc, the pinnacle of Isengard, like a black spike. Southward he looked, and below his very feet the Great River curled like a toppling wave and plunged over the falls of Rauros into a foaming pit; a glimmering rainbow played upon the fume. And Ethir Anduin he saw, the mighty delta of the River, and myriads of sea-birds whirling like a white dust in the sun, and beneath them a green and silver sea, rippling in endless lines.

But everywhere he looked he saw the signs of war. The Misty Mountains were crawling like anthills: orcs were issuing out of a thousand holes. Under the boughs of Mirkwood there was deadly strife of Elves and Men and fell beasts. The land of the Beornings was aflame; a cloud was over Moria; smoke rose on the borders of Lórien.

Horsemen were galloping on the grass of Rohan; wolves poured from Isengard. From the havens of Harad ships of war put out to sea; and out of the East Men were moving endlessly: swordsmen, spearmen, bowmen upon horses, chariots of chieftains and laden wains. All the power of the Dark Lord was in motion. Then turning south again he beheld Minas Tirith. Far away it seemed. and beautiful: white-walled, many-towered, proud and fair upon its mountain-seat; its battlements glittered with steel, and its turrets were bright with many banners. Hope leaped in his heart. But against Minas Tirith was set another fortress, greater and more strong. Thither, eastward, unwilling his eye was drawn. It passed the ruined bridges of Osgiliath, the grinning gates of Minas Morgul. and the haunted Mountains, and it looked upon Gorgoroth, the valley of terror in the Land of Mordor. Darkness lay there under the Sun. Fire glowed amid the smoke. Mount Doom was burning, and a great reek rising. Then at last his gaze was held: wall upon wall, battlement upon battlement, black, immeasurably strong, mountain of iron, gate of steel, tower of adamant, he saw it: Barad-dûr, Fortress of Sauron. All hope left him.

Come on PJ. How could you leave that out?

[Impenitent]

Good catch, Al.

[Elentári]

All of the above, plus the Denethor death scene as it should have been, with him revealing the MT palantír, and jumping on the pyre with it.

[Pearly Di]

What I don't want:

-- You won't get me voting for Ghân-buri-Ghân! Why does the film narrative need him, pray?

-- Not Tom Bombadil. Absolutely not. Tom is a Plot Diversion and Out He Must Go. No, I don't care how cool it is that the Ring has no power over him. It's a fantastic moment in the book, couldn't agree more, but we are wasting too much time in the film here. Let's get on, the Nazgûl are hunting.

-- Not Glorfindel. Great guy, killed a Balrog, but that's so Second Age. Really minor part in LotR. Bye, Glorfy (sorry).

-- I can live without the Scouring. Too many multiple endings. Joe and Jane Public were wondering politely when the damn movie was going to end already. Keep the Scouring for the 30-episode mini-series that'll never happen.

OK, onto the substantive stuff.

I agree with the V-Man and Al. And Elen.

-- Gollum's scene of near-repentance illustrates one of Tolkien's most important themes, that of mercy. Frodo's mercy to Gollum has helped humanise Gollum to such an extent that he nearly, nearly repents ... and then fails at the last hurdle. Which is totally his choice, of course. This moment is one of the most moving ones in the book for me. And it would have made awesome cinema.

-- Amon Hen. How on earth could PJ not go for broke on this? It screams cinematic splendour. Forget all those cave trolls, PJ ... blow the budget on THIS!

-- Restore Denethor's character. It wouldn't have taken up much time. Really.

But my personal number one choice is, and this should surprise nobody is:

RESTORE FRODO'S BRAVERY AT THE FORD!!!!!



I don't care how you do it. You can have Arwen there if you like. She can raise the River, I couldn't care less it was her rather than Elrond.

But I want to see Frodo shout those words of defiance at the Nazgûl, not droop like a sack of potatoes.

And while you're about it, don't make him drop his sword at Weathertop either.

[Maria]

I really missed Aragorn and Éomer meeting on the field of battle like Aragorn said they would.

'Alas! Aragorn my friend!' said Éomer. 'I had hoped that we should ride to war together; but if you seek the Paths of the Dead, then our parting is come, and it is little likely that we shall ever meet again under the Sun.'
'That road I will take, nonetheless,' said Aragorn. 'But I say to you, Éomer, that in battle we may yet meet again, though all the hosts of Mordor should stand between.'

[snip]

For now men leaped from the ships to the quays of the Harlond and swept north like a storm. There came Legolas, and Gimli wielding his axe, and Halbarad with the standard, and Elladan and Elrohir with stars on their brow, and the dour-handed Dúnedain, Rangers of the North, leading a great valour of the folk of Lebennin and Lamedon and the fiefs of the South. But before all went Aragorn with the Flame of the West, Andúril like a new fire kindled, Narsil re-forged as deadly as of old: and upon his brow was the Star of Elendil.
And so at length Éomer and Aragorn met in the midst of the battle, and they leaned on their swords and looked on one another and were glad.
'Thus we meet again, though all the hosts of Mordor lay between us,' said Aragorn. 'Did I not say so at the Hornburg?'
'So you spoke,' said Éomer, 'but hope oft deceives, and I knew not then that you were a man foresighted. Yet twice blessed is help unlooked for, and never was a meeting of friends more joyful.' And they clasped hand in hand. 'Nor indeed more timely,' said Éomer. 'You come none too soon, my friend. Much loss and sorrow has befallen us.'
'Then let us avenge it, ere we speak of it!' said Aragorn, and they rode back to battle together.

Would that have been so hard to do?

[Mrs.Underhill]

Must be something in the air - folks are talking about movies again, and I've just rewatched TTT out of a sudden urge, after not touching the movies for a year.

As for your question, Yovargas - I'm tempted to say "Faramir". I'd really wish he were included in the movies...

But seriously - I'm not sure whether including a scene in a movie would've turned out to be a good or a bad thing - for the scene. And my main grumble was not with omitted scenes, but with included scenes with omitted meaning.
For example, Weathertop, Flight to the Ford and Merry and Pippin joining Frodo and Sam on the road out of Shire are technically there, but I wish for Frodo's resistance there (You will take neither Ring nor me!), and for Conspiracy in Crickhollow to be included (and the Hobbit bath would be a bonus ).

Ditto for Henneth Annun and the respect between Frodo and Faramir. And for Choices of Master Samwise to really be about choices, followed by a temptation by the Ring. And for the Stairs of Kirith Ungol scene with Gollum near repentance - but I don't begrudge that one much, as we got the similar meaning spread around several other scenes.

So looking at all of the above, I'd say the omission of Sam's temptation was the most glaring of all, as it relates to the key point of character growth of the main character. Movie's Sam misses on a spiritual growth that will lead him to Aman in the book. Movie's Sam won't have anything to do with that.

[solicitr]

The Great Darkness (which actually appeared in a trailer, but not the final cut). Fer Pete's sake, the essence of cinema is playing games with light- and yet the "Devil's mirk" and its breaking, beyond hope, at dawn of the 15th were completely *junked.* And its lemma- the cock crowing, another moment Tolkien said moved him the most, pregnant with symbolism both Christian and pre-Christian. Throw in the real, genuine Gandalf-WK confrontation. But, no, PJ wanted Great Big Monsters instead. Bah!

Big dittos to Aragorn's actual use of the palantír, at the Hornburg. Placed after the Pelennor, it makes no sense at all, and the Evenstar business is just nonsense.

The Stone of Erech. How could PJ have not seen the cinematic potential here? And it is the moment where Aragorn really becomes King, the point where he not merely proclaims his lineage, but exercises the authority that goes along with it. He takes on the mantle of majesty. (Movie-Aragorn is, like, "I got the Magic Sword, creepy green dude!") And yet the Grey Company and the shadow-host then disappear into the gloom....

Aragorn at Cerin Amroth. *There* is the place for an Arwen flashback- it's pretty much right there in the dang book- but PJ blows it completely (I find the CA scene in the movie to be cut-rate and cheesy).

Although it's not a deal-breaker, I miss Wellinghall; but then its absence is just part and parcel of PJ's clownization of the Ents.

I really miss M&P's actual dialog with Théoden at the gates of Isengard, rather than the stoner comedy PJ gave us. "So that is the King of Rohan. A fine old fellow. Very polite."

At least a brief version of Faramir's talk with Frodo, which says so much about 'civilisation' and the place of martial valor. There's nothing wrong with a movie that involves things beyond mere plot!

[vison]

solictr, you and I were evidently separated at birth, PJ-wise.

God, I hated all that crap. I hated it so much my blood pressure goes up even being in this thread. I hated it so much I haven't bothered to even watch the DVD's.

So many glorious opportunities wasted! A movie that could have been what Tolkien's book is: lofty and lovely, lifting the viewers into a Blessed Realm. No, we got a video game and so many bloody cheesy monsters and battle scenes that they spoiled just about everything.

I agree that the movie looked splendid. The sets, scenery, costumes, artefacts, were all near flawless. If only, if only, if only they could have resisted the temptation to blow us out of our seats with Common SFX when they could have blown us away as Tolkien did.

My argument has never so much been what was left out, as what was done with what they used: PJ just did not seem to understand the "tone" of the story. He seemed to see it as an adventure tale and little else. His inclusions of book-stuff were all bent to that end.

Gack.

[Padme]

I pretty much agree with a good lot that has been said here,

except I would have liked to see Glofindel, Elledan and Elrohir more and Arwen less.

PJ was right for leaving Tom out.

I would have like to seen Legolas develop more like he did in the book.

And more book Faramir.

Of course it is a different media and all that jazz.

[sauronsfinger]

I would have like the scene with Faramir to be exactly like it was in the book with each and every line spoken as written.

"I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her, so, using the weapon of the Dark Lord for her good and my glory. No, I do not wish for such triumphs, Frodo son of Drogo."

[Teremia]

I missed the darkness, as solicitr points out. It's nowhere where it should be: not haunting Gondor and especially not in Shelob's lair, which glowed almost as brightly blue as Lothlórien (see complaint below). But the tunnel is terrible because it's COMPLETELY DARK! You could suggest that in a film. Really you could.

And I missed Lothlórien, the green and gold of it.

And a lot of other things, too, as listed by others in this thread.

[River]

Kill the film version of the Aragorn character arc. Reforge the sword before he leaves Rivendell and send Rangers to Dunharrow, not Elrond. At that stage in the game, Elrond would never have dared the journey over the mountains and through Lothlórien. There would have been too great a risk that the war would begin while he was away and he'd be cut-off from his people. And, since Rivendell was basically the gateway into Eriador, he really needed to be there to command the defenses should Sauron breach Lórien and Mirkwood.

Restore Faramir to his former glory.

[Frelga]

Aragorn at Cerin Amroth. *There* is the place for an Arwen flashback- it's pretty much right there in the dang book- but PJ blows it completely (I find the CA scene in the movie to be cut-rate and cheesy).

[Lalaith]

I'm on the Faramir and Legolas bandwagons. I wanted their characters to be much more like they were in the books.

As much as I fell in love with movie-Legolas in FotR (and it is what prompted me to read the books!), I was astounded at how different Tolkien actually portrayed him. He was even cooler.

And, for God's sake, PJ, could you not have given us one damn kiss between Faramir and Éowyn?! Just one?!