"Gondor calls for aid!" (and other movie changes)

[vison]

No it did not.

I think the thing is that whoever made that decision thought it wasn't "black and white" enough or something and that we movie goers are too thick to understand what is going on with Faramir.

However. I really truly ought to stay out of any discussion of the movies. I've seen them once all the way through, have never watched all the EE DVD's, while having read the book 120 times. I should give the movies another shot, I guess, but I don't have the time or the inclination.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Al, I largely agree with you. And the scene with the Nazgûl is one of the most visually and aurally (not musically) compelling scenes in the films (and for heaven's sake, Frodo does not "offer the Ring" to the Nazgûl).

[Holbytla]

and for heaven's sake, Frodo does not "offer the Ring" to the Nazgûl

The fact that there is still doubt in people's mind about this tells me that part was a cinematic miscue. His intentions should have been clearer.

I understand Jackson's apparent need for Osgilliath to flesh out certain parts of the story, but I also recognize he took that opportunity for another battle scene. Heck all of the battle scenes could have been trimmed down to flesh out more story.

And which character at some point was not acting unlike himself? They all were.

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

In the book Frodo does have a confrontation of sorts with a winged Nazgûl when one tries to seize him on the Anduin. Legolas kills the beast but it does give some sort of justification for the movie confrontation at Osgiliath.

[N.E. Brigand]

and for heaven's sake, Frodo does not "offer the Ring" to the Nazgûl

The fact that there is still doubt in people's mind about this tells me that part was a cinematic miscue. His intentions should have been clearer.

Now this would be the point when someone replies, "Please! Do the filmmakers have to do all the work? Can't viewers be expected to think for themselves?"

*shudder*
Sorry, flashback to old discussions for a moment.

I couldn't tell what Frodo was doing with the Ring and the Rider in Osgiliath. There's a further point of confusion with that scene: based on it, some viewers believe that Sauron must therefore learn that the Ring is Osgiliath; others liken that moment to the book-scene in which the presence of the Ring unsettles the Witch-king in Minas Morgul, but he doesn't know just what he senses.

[solicitr]

In the book Frodo does have a confrontation of sorts with a winged Nazgûl when one tries to seize him on the Anduin

"Tries to seize him"????

[Elentári]

I am interested to know how the "Frodo not offering the Ring to the Nazgûl" scene is meant to be interpreted, because to all intents and purposes that is exactly what it looks like he is doing, albeit involuntarily.

[Inanna]

It never occurred to me that Frodo was offering the ring to the Nazgûl. My understanding was that the ring was pulling him towards the Nazgûl. Once pulled, Frodo was going to wear the ring - the final step in the ring making its presence obvious.

It just occurred to me that, the ring could be telling Frodo that once he wears it, he could control the Nazgûl...

[Holbytla]

This much confusion from people who have read these works scores of times. Imagine someone not familliar with the story trying to decipher what was going on?
It's one thing to leave something ambiguous for effect, yet another to confuse the audience.

[Inanna]

It's one thing to leave something ambiguous for effect, yet another to confuse the audience.

Valid point. This issue itself should render the entire Osgiliath sequence a mistake.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I don't think that people who weren't familiar with the books were confused at all, generally speaking. It is only those who had preconceptions about what the story should be who were confused. Certainly, I have never seen a single review by a critic who pointed to that as an error, nor have I ever spoken to someone who was not familiar with the book who was confused by the scene.

[Impenitent]

Well, Vinnie, I'm here to report on TWO viewers of the film who had not read the book, who both turned to their mother at the critical moment and asked, "Why is Frodo going to give the ring to the Nazgûl?!"

The mother answered, "I have no idea! He's not supposed to. The film maker stuffed up!"

Names withheld to protect the innocent.

Al, the Osgiliation annoys me for two reasons: the character assassination of Faramir; and the takes up unwarranted film time which could have been dedicated to so many other scenes.

The cliff-dive is also anathema; the introduction of Whoopy-do the Wonder Horse was completely unnecessary.

[yovargas]

PS - EVERYTHING is completely unnecessary.

[Impenitent]

Don't be so nihilistic!

[Elentári]

So...what was happening between Frodo and the Nazgûl, then?

[Alatar]

Well, there's a number of options. He could be confronting it, challenging it, attempting to dominate it. Or he could be offering to give his precious ring to it. Which seems the least likely.

[Elentári]

The only thing apparent to me was that Frodo was acting against his will; the nearness of the Nazgûl was calling to the Ring, which was forcing Frodo to reveal himself to the Enemy, as happens again close to Minas Morgul.

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

"Tries to seize him"????

I know the movie version at Osgiliath isn't a tight match but nevertheless in the book Frodo knows more clearly than the rest of the Fellowship what the true nature of the flying creature that approached them is.

The Winged Nazgûl and orc attack on the river was an attempt by Sauron, frustrated by Legolas, to waylay the Fellowship, much as Saruman's subsequent successful one was. Sauron would have known that the Fellowship had passed through Moria into Lórien and the river would have been patrolled. Sam blamed it on Gollum but that clearly wasn't so.

[solicitr]

That much is true. Both Saruman and Sauron had spies in Moria, and while the Fellowship was in Lórien each sent out troops, under Ugluk and Grishnakh respectively.

But while of course the Nazgûl was part of Grishnakh's attempted ambush, I'm not so keen on it trying to 'seize' anybody. The Nazgûl don't seem to be able to do that to people in the 'primary world,' as Gandalf said at Rivendell. Only when Frodo was in their world, by wearing the ring or via the Morgul-knife, could they seize him.

[Pearly Di]

I don't think that people who weren't familiar with the books were confused at all, generally speaking. It is only those who had preconceptions about what the story should be who were confused. Certainly, I have never seen a single review by a critic who pointed to that as an error, nor have I ever spoken to someone who was not familiar with the book who was confused by the scene.

I agree completely with you, V-man.

It's not like I don't care about what Tolkien wrote, absolutely I care, but I have quite another perspective on Jackson's films ... especially as Harry Potter purists keep telling me that audiences stayed away from the 'least' faithful HP film (Prisoner of Azkaban) because of the departures from canon.

And I keep telling them, as nicely as I can, that Joe and Jane Public don't give two hoots about departures from Jo Rowling's holy and sacred text. All they care about is seeing a good film.

The perspective of a Tolkien geek (which I certainly am) on PJ's LotR is naturally going to differ wildly from that of Joe and Jane Public, who may or may not have read LotR as a teenager, remembered vaguely that they liked it, went along to see Jackson's films and thoroughly enjoyed them.

The important thing for Joe and Jane Public is that the film narrative makes sense as it stands. Departures from canon are wholly irrelevant from their perspective.

Speaking purely for myself, I certainly don't always like Jackson's adaptational choices. And have said so numerous times. As films in their own right, however, I have few complaints about his LotR.

The worst offender, for me, is actually the RotK:EE! It just goes on too bloody long, and I don't think I like any of the additional scenes. Oh, apart from Merry offering his sword to Théoden. Obviously. All the rest -- meh.