Stuff we STILL haven't seen....

Post by **Alatar** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:58 pm

It occurs to me that there's still a lot of material we have never seen. Of course, the epilogue is one, also the Faramir/Éowyn wedding. But there's also Éowyn in the Glittering caves defending the women and children, and alternates like the sections of Arwen at Helms Deep that got cut, and the section Viggo mentioned about his meeting with Arwen.

I wonder will we ever see all of this?

Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:23 pm

I doubt we will see all of it. There had to have been hundreds of hours of footage shot, and some dividing line has to be drawn. But I bet we will see some of it, in the legendary 25th Anniversary editions. Maybe even sooner.

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:24 pm

I would say, certainly not until both Hobbit movies are out and have been released on DVD, in EEs if there are any. They wouldn't want any new LotR material competing with the Hobbit.

Even then, PJ doesn't seem all that inclined to release a lot of that footage, and much of it has never been put through the post-production process—no score, no color grading, no proper editing. Either he'd have to let it out the door like that, or he'd have to put in a lot of work on it.

Post by **Elentári** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:58 pm

I hope to God they have burned any footage of Arwen at Helm's Deep - why on earth would we want to torture ourselves with that?

On the other hand, any footage of Viggo from ten years ago would be gratefully received!

Post by **Pearly Di** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:20 pm

Elentári wrote:I hope to God they have burned any footage of Arwen at Helm's Deep - why on earth would we want to torture ourselves with that?

If you slow the DVD of TTT right down, during the final standoff between Théoden's troops and the Uruk-Hai, just before Gandalf turns up with the reinforcements, you can actually see Arwen's long dark hair and mulberry-coloured riding habit.

They couldn't quite edit her out.

I wouldn't mind seeing the footage of Liv not being able to fire a bow and arrow.

On the other hand, any footage of Viggo from ten years ago would be gratefully received!

Good heavens, yes, it was TEN YEARS AGO they started filming.

Can you believe it????!!!!! November 1999.

Oh. My. Goodness. That is just SCARY.

Where did my life go?

Post by **sauronsfinger** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:25 pm

In December of 2011 we get the tenth anniversary of the release of FOTR. That is nearly three years away and its a long time to wait for a Blueray version of the film which is probably the next logical way to release it. I would hope that we see a Blueray version within a year to 18 months from right now. And I suspect that would be a fairly straight forward version of the film - perhaps both editions - without a great deal of new extras attached. Then, eighteen months later, they can release another Blueray edition filled with more extras - the Special Tenth Anniversary Edition. Some of those scenes discussed above - Cave scenes with Éowyn, Aragorn and Arwen meeting at Rivendell for first time, and others could be included in that. If necessary, they could do the postproduction work that Prim described in her post to make them work.

A two-tiered release along those lines would fit in with how they have handled the property so far.

Post by **solicitr** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:53 pm

Cave scenes with Éowyn, Aragorn and Arwen meeting at Rivendell for first time, and others could be included in that. If necessary, they could do the postproduction work that Prim described in her post to make them work.

God, let's hope not. "Rejected scenes" are often rejected for a reason, and more is often less. It was (IMHO, of course) a mistake to include much of the extra material in the RK/EE (starting with the atrocious Gandalf/WK scene): why now make a super-extended edition which includes really bad ideas PJ fortunately changed his mind about?

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:08 pm

I doubt they would be integrated into the films in any way. They'd just be curiosities, like most deleted scenes. I don't usually look at them, for the reasons you give, but for LotR I might, just from wanting to see some of those earlier thoughts.

Post by **sauronsfinger** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:57 pm

Solicitr has a good point. And I think Prim is correct.

I am recalling this from memory - but I think Jackson has stated that the EE's of all three films now constitute what the films will be made up of without any further changes. That does not preclude the inclusion of extras on DVD's apart from the actual body of the film. You could take those missing/cut/edited scenes and place them in special Extra Sections just the way they did with other such material on other previous releases.

There is something about a director - Lucas with STAR WARS and Spielberg with E.T. come to mind - going back years later and changing their films. It is somewhat bothering to me and I wish it were not done unless the option was preserved of seeing it as originally released as well.

Post by **Alatar** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:24 pm

I agree in principle that we don't need another full cut of the movies, although I disagree that the correct option was always the one chosen.

There may well be rejected scenes that we would prefer. An example that comes to mind is the Council of Elrond. On the EE, there was an Editing workshop that allowed people to see the different scenes that were cut together to make the final scene. One of those scenes had Hugo Weaving saying a paraphrase of the line "The Company of the Ring shall be Nine; and the Nine Walkers shall be set against the Nine Riders that are evil." That line never made it into the final scene, and I missed it.

Also there are scenes on the Costa Botes documentary of Gandalf teaching Sindarin to Frodo that I'd love to see more of.

So yeah, any Deleted Scenes would be a bonus for me.

Post by **Elentári** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:58 pm

Yes, Al - any deleted material that contains actual Tolkien dialogue should be ours, precious!

Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:59 pm

Any deleted material that had actual Tolkien dialogue should never have been deleted in the first place.

Post by **Dave_LF** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:32 pm

sauronsfinger wrote:but I think Jackson has stated that the EE's of all three films now constitute what the films will be made up of without any further changes.

I've decided that on balance, I prefer the theatrical cuts. A few of the added scenes are nice and probably shouldn't have been cut, but many are gratuitous, mess up the pacing, or just don't look as polished. And some of them, especially in RotK, are just plain awful. Heck, I'd give up good scenes from the TE's to have the extended paths of the dead forever relegated to the blooper reel.

Post by **solicitr** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:13 pm

Amen!

On the whole, I found the FR/EE to be an improvement, largely because it fleshed out the Council and Lórien; but the additions to TT added little if anything,* and those to RK nothing (save the Voice of Saruman, and even that was ruined by moronic dialogue).

The *Boromir/Osgiliath flashback started well, but as soon as Denethor appeared the scene collapsed under its own absurdities

Post by **Elentári** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:19 pm

Solicitr wrote:

On the whole, I found the FR/EE to be an improvement, largely because it fleshed out the Council and Lórien; but the additions to TT added little if anything,* and those to RK nothing (save the Voice of Saruman, and even that was ruined by moronic dialogue).

I would agree mostly, but the EE RK did give us the Houses of Healing, without which we would have no hint of Faramir & Éowyn's future relationship. I know not everyone is bothered about that, but to me it was an important subplot and deserved more screentime than it got.

Post by **Frelga** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:26 pm

solicitr wrote:The *Boromir/Osgiliath flashback started well, but as soon as Denethor appeared the scene collapsed under its own absurdities

True. But the farewell between the brothers was brilliant.

Post by **sauronsfinger** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:41 pm

What it seems we are seeing is that different people do indeed have favorite scenes from the EE additions. So it looks like many do have merit. I greatly prefer the EE of all three films and watch that version whenever I watch the films. Since the EE's have been released, I never even watch the theatrical version anymore.

Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:40 pm

solicitr wrote:and those to RK nothing

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Post by **Elentári** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:58 pm

sf wrote:

I greatly prefer the EE of all three films and watch that version whenever I watch the films.

I do have the theatricals, of course, but I let my kids have those to watch so they don't get grubby fingers on my collectors' editions.

Post by **ArathornJax** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:16 pm

There are elements that I like and there are elements of the EE that I don't like. I could spend a very long entry on that but won't except for one. I don't like Saruman's ending. Tolkien states in Letter 210 Tolkien stated that Saruman would have been better to let Saruman's end go, then have him commit suicide. I know in the movie he didn't commit suicide but I feel that scene cheapens Saruman's ending. Better to have left it open as in the Theatrical version. Just one example for me.