Why Peter Jackson is a purist compared to the BBC!
- Voronwë the Faithful
- At the intersection of here and now
- Posts: 46192
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
- Contact:
Surely you jest?sauronsfinger wrote:Mithluin ... when you mention "radioactive Galadriel" is that in a negative sense or a positive sense?
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Geek.Ax wrote:That would depend on whether she's an alpha or beta emitter, wouldn't it?
Not geek.Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:Surely you jest?sauronsfinger wrote:Mithluin ... when you mention "radioactive Galadriel" is that in a negative sense or a positive sense?
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
- Voronwë the Faithful
- At the intersection of here and now
- Posts: 46192
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
- Contact:
axordil wrote:That would depend on whether she's an alpha or beta emitter, wouldn't it?
Actually, she was fluorescing green, which is an entirely different phenomenon.
Last edited by River on Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When you can do nothing what can you do?
- sauronsfinger
- Posts: 3508
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:25 am
please don't call me Shirley.
To this day I read that section of the book over and over again and I have yet to find one thing out of place when you compare the book to the film.
To this day I read that section of the book over and over again and I have yet to find one thing out of place when you compare the book to the film.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers
- Voronwë the Faithful
- At the intersection of here and now
- Posts: 46192
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:41 am
- Contact:
Where does Tolkien state that Galadriel turns a sickly radioactive green color? Worse, where does it say that her voice turns into that of some weirdly twisted cyborg? The sad thing about that scene is that it really is so close to what it should have been. But Jackson just couldn't resist ramping it up those extra notches."You are wise and fearless and fair, Lady Galadriel," said Frodo. "I will give you the One Ring, if you ask for it. It is too great a matter for me."
Galadriel laughed with a sudden clear laugh. "Wise the Lady Galadriel may be," she said, "yet here she has met her match in courtesy. Gently are you revenged for my testing of your heart at our first meeting. You begin to see with a keen eye. I do not deny that my heart has greatly desired to ask what you offer. For many long years I had pondered what I might do, should the Great Ring come into my hands, and behold! it was brought within my grasp. The evil that was devised long ago works on in many ways, whether Sauron himself stands or falls. Would not that have been a noble deed to set to the credit of his Ring, if I had taken it by force or fear from my guest?
"And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair! '
She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illuminated her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful. Then she let her hand fall, and the light faded, and suddenly she laughed again, and lo! she was shrunken: a slender elf-woman, clad in simple white, whose gentle voice was soft and sad.
"I pass the test," she said. "I will diminish, and go into the West and remain Galadriel."
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
- Posts: 40005
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
- Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
- Contact:
I agree. It could have been done more subtly, and I think it would have gained in power thereby. Make her tall and beautiful and bathed in light, for just a moment. No fluorescence, not some kind of metamorphosis into Scary Ugly Galadriel; instead a revelation of the power that is really there, if she chose to claim it.
The terrifying thing about the Ring, for Galadriel and Gandalf and others, is not that it would turn them instantly into radioactive monsters; it's that it would lead them through their own good intentions and their own inherent power, by a road that would seem right and necessary, into performing monstrous acts.
The terrifying thing about the Ring, for Galadriel and Gandalf and others, is not that it would turn them instantly into radioactive monsters; it's that it would lead them through their own good intentions and their own inherent power, by a road that would seem right and necessary, into performing monstrous acts.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- axordil
- Pleasantly Twisted
- Posts: 8999
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:35 pm
- Location: Black Creek Bottoms
- Contact:
There is, in adaptation, a need not to depict precisely what is printed in the narrative portions of a text, but rather to convey the meaning and feeling those portions convey. Gamma Galadriel was an attempt, I think, to do that. Whether one feels it worked or not, I honestly do not feel a naturalistic interpretation could have sufficed to carry the awe and terror of that moment on screen. The execution may not have pleased everyone, but the instinct was, in this case, spot on.
It is in the "why is her face a photographic negative and why is she wearing an armored breastplate corset thing?" sense. Whether that is positive or negative I leave up to you to determine.sauronsfinger wrote:Mithluin ... when you mention "radioactive Galadriel" is that in a negative sense or a positive sense?
The way she is portrayed in the movie, there is very little reason for Frodo to trust her (in any sense of the word) with the Ring. That weakens the scene, to me.
- Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
- Posts: 40005
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
- Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
- Contact:
I agree with Mith. And Ax, I honestly do think the feeling (and meaning) of the text could be shown without turning Galadriel into something blatantly and openly terrifying. Tolkien describes an unnatural light; if we also suddenly saw her from Frodo's level, looking tall and powerful, I think Cate Blanchett's performance could have done the rest.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Why has she turned into the Lady of the Toilet Paper?MithLuin wrote:It is in the "why is her face a photographic negative and why is she wearing an armored breastplate corset thing?" sense.sauronsfinger wrote:Mithluin ... when you mention "radioactive Galadriel" is that in a negative sense or a positive sense?
The sentiment of the scene is fine.
The SFX is wildly over the top. Sometimes, PJ, less is more. As Prim says, Cate could have carried off Galadriel's moment of temptation, and the power she exudes, without all that unnecessary SFX. A bit of SFX would have been fine ... as in the scene at Bag End when Gandalf gets all heavy with Bilbo over Bilbo's Ring-obsession, that was excellently done. But in the Mirror scene, the SFX swamps the wonderful Cate.
I'd not actually thought of that before. But you are right, Mith!The way she is portrayed in the movie, there is very little reason for Frodo to trust her (in any sense of the word) with the Ring. That weakens the scene, to me.
"Frodo undertook his quest out of love - to save the world he knew from disaster at his own expense, if he could ... "
Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
Avatar by goldlighticons on Live Journal
Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
Avatar by goldlighticons on Live Journal
- axordil
- Pleasantly Twisted
- Posts: 8999
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:35 pm
- Location: Black Creek Bottoms
- Contact:
The facial transform, as I recall, wasn't a positive/negative flip, but mostly a contrast and hue compression. Darks got darker and lights got lighter (within an darker and more monochromatic palette overall). Just sayin'.
The best visual comparison within the films is probably that of Gandalf leaning on Bilbo in Bag End to give up the Ring. That WAS done in a naturalistic fashion, via lighting and Ian McKellen's voice and posture. For that scene, it worked, and it fit; Gladys at the Mirror required another level of oomph, since Frodo and she are operating in what can only be described as an altered state of awareness throughout.
The best visual comparison within the films is probably that of Gandalf leaning on Bilbo in Bag End to give up the Ring. That WAS done in a naturalistic fashion, via lighting and Ian McKellen's voice and posture. For that scene, it worked, and it fit; Gladys at the Mirror required another level of oomph, since Frodo and she are operating in what can only be described as an altered state of awareness throughout.
- Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
- Posts: 40005
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
- Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
- Contact:
There is a moment in the EE where she's talking to Aragorn, the morning they leave, and she lays out the choice that's before him (paraphrasing because I'm short on time): to become greater than all who came before him; or to turn aside from his fate, and fall into darkness with the rest of his people. In the first part the light on Galadriel's face brightens, and then fades when she goes on to the second. It's noticeable, but it is not in your face, and it works with Blanchett's performance without distracting from it. That's the kind of thing I mean.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
- Posts: 40005
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
- Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
- Contact:
Well, I have never been an advocate for the subtle approach under all circumstances , but in this case I think it was the wrong anvil. It didn't convey that the Ring would not change Galadriel into a powerful, monstrous being, but instead would take the power she had and twist it.
At least, that's not what I saw.
At least, that's not what I saw.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- sauronsfinger
- Posts: 3508
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:25 am
Well I thought it was perfection.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers