Aragorn vs movie Aragorn

[Frelga]

Drawing a sword when in a parley with heavily armed men--on their turf, not yours--is a bit impatient, a bit direct, and more than a bit presumptuous. Rude isn't the right word: arrogant very much is.

Of course, the point of it all is that he can get away with it because of what he is: he has an inborn right to be arrogant. A lesser man, with less presence, would have died there with his comrades.

I was thinking about it, and the gesture doesn't strike me as foolhardy. Aragorn knows the Rohirrim, he had spent years among them. He knows how to get their attention, and how they are likely to react.

Besides, what's the alternative? His friends are in danger, as is the rest of the Middle-earth. Éomer is rightly suspicious of this bunch of strangers. Aragorn doesn't carry a government issued ID - except for the sword, the name, and yes, the arrogance. At worst, it's a calculated gamble, and Éomer responds with a predictable, "Awesome, dude!"

Mind, the point is not, "Stand aside because I'll cut your head off if you don't." Aragorn is saying, "Here is a great destiny moving in the world. Think twice before trying to mess with it - not because I'm so bad***, but because it affects the fate of the entire world."

[Siberian]

if a bit impatient and direct

Drawing a sword when in a parley with heavily armed men--on their turf, not yours--is a bit impatient, a bit direct, and more than a bit presumptuous. Rude isn't the right word: arrogant very much is.

I disagree. He drew the sword mainly to show them that it's the Narsil reforged, even the Rohirrim heard about it. Considering how outnumbered they were, one sword didn't change anything. If anything, it was closer to a foolish bravery He didn't command them to let them go as if he was their King.

Of course, the point of it all is that he can get away with it because of what he is: he has an inborn right to be arrogant. A lesser man, with less presence, would have died there with his comrades.

No, he can "get away with it" because he's on a mission to save his friends, his cause is just and Éomer recognizes it. His sword as well as the elvish cloaks is a proof that his an enemy of the Shadow.

In any case, if you think that Aragorn is rude here, than he's a total bastard in many of the movie scenes

[axordil]

Think twice before trying to mess with it - not because I'm so bad***, but because it affects the fate of the entire world

I would actually combine those two. He IS that bad***, AND it affects the fate of the entire world.

I never implied the gesture was foolhardy. As you note: Aragorn knew the Rohirrim well. He knew how to press their buttons, so to speak. It was a gamble, based on arrogance--but it was not a foolish gamble, as the arrogance was born of really being just that BAD***, which in a warrior-based culture such as Rohan (or A-S England, on which it was loosely based) was Important. Beowulf, as you may recall, was not a shrinking violet.

[axordil]

Siberian--
I don't think the Rohirrim would recognize either Narsil reforged or elvish equipment by sight.

In the context of the situation at that point in the scene, with tempers flaring and weapons already limbered on both sides, the rightness or wrongness of the cause was not important. The Rohan version of "street cred" was.

Declaring one's heritage in a string of names and attributes is a heroic trope. In a way I think this whole scene was here just because JRRT couldn't hold back on it any longer.

[Frelga]

I would actually combine those two. He IS that bad***, AND it affects the fate of the entire world.

Right, and I think we agree here. Especially about him being JUST THAT BADA**

The interesting thing about this scene is that it shows Aragorn both as the epic hero, and as a flawed human being. As you point out, there's a great deal of arrogance in his words.

This is one of the things I love about Tolkien's characterization. He doesn't make his characters "balanced" with flaws - the hero is A but then he is B. His characters are A all the way, and the same trait that is their strength and virtue can also be their downfall, and vice versa.

So Aragorn is arrogant. It comes with the job. But what he is not is selfish. He is not in it for personal glory and loot. So it's "aid me or thwart me" but it's also "there go three that I love." He knows what his shiny sword defends.

Siberian--
I don't think the Rohirrim would recognize either Narsil reforged or elvish equipment by sight.

They may not know the provenance, but they could certainly see that it was A REALLY COOL sword.

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

The confrontation with Hama is not personal arrogance or chutzpah. It's about Narsil. It brought down a demi god and has an unimaginably long history. To compare it to Excalibur would diminish it within Middle-earth. One has to imagine a resurected sword of Theseus or King David to get some idea of its position within that world. Aragorn is the temporary guardian of it and his reaction is understandable.
Would any of us leave a Stradivarius violin at a reception desk to an unknown functionary without a little fuss first?
I love Ax's observation that Tolkien was dying to get that clarion call out on the plains of Rohan but again using internal logic, Aragorn has to show he is not an idle trespasser but someone of consequence. Again in the modern world I would expect an ambassador or important politico would pull rank at a police checkpoint.
Is it the first time he declares publically his inheritance and destiny? Notice the hobbits are not there so Aragorn's change in status after this confuses them.

[solicitr]

Well, he does it in the gorge of the Argonath, although I don't know if that counts as "public" (only Frodo and Sam).

Still, in that scene I really wish he'd just shut up and steer the boat.

[N.E. Brigand]

There is, in the new issue of Tolkien Studies an essay entitled "Councils and Kings: Aragorn's Journey Towards Kingship in J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings and Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings" by Judy Ann Ford and Robin Anne Reid. I know nothing about the authors, and I haven't been able to read the essay yet, but it sounds like it could be quite relevant to this thread. I'll report back once I've had a chance to read it.

There's a little more about the authors < posted here >. You've actually been in the same room with Reid before, when dining at Mythcon 38 in Berkeley.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Thanks, N.E.B.!

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

Someone not on the Tolkien messageboards posted this on Facebook. It might entertain some of you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPbL91AN ... ture=share

[Lalaith]

It was pretty good. I'll give the person who created it the benefit of the doubt that he or she was young. (The transitions don't fit the "story" very well.) But I like that song a lot, and, of course, I like LotR.