Please forgive the posting placement- as it responds to a few ideas expressed earlier in the thread, rather than GaladrielTX only.
As stated in many posts before, I am bound to please and displease fans no matter which way we ultimately go- My first inkling of the need for two movies came from the 3x5 card layout months and months ago.
Allow me to explain: Adapting an existing book is quite a task (iv e done it with WIND IN THE WILLOWS, THE WITCHES, HELLBOY, etc) and an artistic, instinctive endeavour. The only guide you have is your creative "gut feeling" and that of your closest associates. The carding of an adaptation, however, is quite exact... Normally I card a feature film in about 100-130 3x5 cards that detail "events" that take place in the book. THE HOBBIT (plus the Dol Guldur episodes) carded at over 300 card at its smallest. That means a 4-5 hour movie...
Now and then, allusions are vaguely made at ulterior motives for this or that action- rest assured, everyone on this side of the equation is doing this work first and foremost as a labour of passion and love. That doesnt make us right- but makes our aims true...
Condensing the book to a single film, in our opinion, makes it too much of a travelogue- an itinerary of adventures rather than an adventure itself.
Take a look at the animated Hobbit film and how much textural and dramatic material gets condensed or thrown out (Beorn for one) and you'll understand that "fitting it all" into a single film is quite impossible.
As for the concussive and concise summary of my grotesque and fatalistic vision as such, well, I can safely say that to summarize PJ's previous filmography to LOTR would probably be conducive to a similar overstatement.
I can only repeat what I've mentioned in the past: Nothing in my previous work indicates what I plan to do or what I will do with these films.
This is no warranty that you or anyone else will / must like the films and I will not even attempt at defend my command of whimsy elements -or lack of it- since its your opinion and its perfectly valid as such... But the split comes from a genuine place and from the desire to film every filmable set piece offered by the book. There are many "unfilmable" passages that belong solely to the experience of reading the book but many others are "just" difficult to crack... We are doing many symposia about all these and more...
Now, the one point where we do disagree is in liking A CHRISTMAS STORY;)
Sincerely
G
Some interesting nuggets in there. Looks like we're getting two movies clocking in around Two and a Half Hours each.
I was interested by his mention of carding events. I'll have to find out about that. When I did the TV LOTR I broke down the narrative between the breaking of the fellowship and the Pellenor fields because I wanted to re-weave the cloth. I broke it down not into events but into coherent yet discrete narrative sequences. I listed around 26 of them if I remember right!
As everyone continues to say, he reassures me with his intent.
I continue to be impressed by this guy, and very encouraged by his approach to the task in hand.
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
Another interesting post by GdT at TORN this evening, in response to worries that his style would be too “grotesque and fatalistic” to appropriately adapt The Hobbit.
I take no offense. truly- but this is perhaps a good time to clarify two things that pop up now and then:
1) Some people post as if my involvement is big news (good or bad) and some even hope (others fear) that perhaps my involvement will be palliated and limited by the fact that WETA is involved or Howard Shore or Alan and John, etc as if I fall under "damage control" by using the same team of this or that team...
Some, more gentle in their critique, just use the word vision with quotation marks and pray for PJ to restrain me...
So, look, let me clarify these choices (Alan, John, Howard) are already my choices- Not only I never fought them- I personally urged these artists and to come back as part of the realization of the vision I have for these films. They were not brought on board as an insurance policy against my personality...
The more you are familiar with my work, the more you'll ease or increase your anxieties- but if you go from an incomplete view (only PANS LABYRINTH or only BLADE II, say) the more you will remain in an uneasy twilight-
IF you are familiar with all my work and you still have anxieties, chances are that you may have some ground to be wary of those tendencies to pop up somehow, somewhere....
B) The part that may bring the palette and tone one shade darker than the book is the Geo-political / Dol-Guldur portions, which add considerable gravity to Gandalf's quest and the origins of the map and key, but i truly believe that they will make for a much more satisfying film narrative at the end of the day.
Once again, if you seek my posting in other topics you will find that I have often, and unprompted, used that exact word: WHIMSY to describe one of the many things that will differentiate LOTR and TH.
Peter and I have said it, time and again, this will not be an exercise in mimicry of style and I will NOT be trying to emulate PJ's style or achievements but I do intend to respectfully build up on them-
In my mind, the mistake would be to approach THE HOBBIT as if it needs the exact same tools and look as LOTR, they are quite different in tone and in look and deserve to feel like tales that can be viewed together and exist in the same universe and Mithology but that can also stand on their own.
The challenges of the book and the added material is enormous since it includes many passages and moments that are iconic but difficult to translate to film- others just require of intelligence and hard work. It is my hope that in the not so distant future images, teasers etc will slowly unveil the personality and majesty of our enterprise to you all and then you can decide if you like what we are doing or not.
In the meantime I remain,
Sincerely Yours
Guillermo
I wonder if he realizes that some of us are more hopeful about him restraining PJ than we are hopeful that PJ will restrain him.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Good point, V. I am not familiar with GDT's style, but from all I heard he is not given to the crass humor that was one of my complaints about PJ's LOTR.
I found the post encouraging, especially the part about the two stories needing different treatment.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
I love the fact that the first point is "1" and the second point is "B". Whether or not that was intentional.
I'm very impressed with Guillermo, and I can't help but be excited to see how he meets this challenge. Even though I've never seen a single one of his films (not even Pans Labyrinth; too violent for me).
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
The word "whimsy" reminds me forcibly of Roger Ebert's review of PJ's RotK, to which he objected because PJ had failed to capture the "gentle whimsy" of dear Professor Tolkien's original text. Ebert particularly tsk tsked over the severed heads being catapulted into Minas Tirith. Brutal! Shocking! What would the Professor have said?
(Yes, I know he is not "the Professor." )
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
GDT definitely seems to have his head screwed on right...
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
From what I've seen of del Toro (little, I admit) he seems like a talented director and has a good chance of pulling it off. I'm more concerned by the writing team, which is the same as in LOTR. I really hope they'll be more respectful this time around, especially when it comes to changing or eliminating key scenes and replacing them with some silly cliched stuff like Aragorn falling off the cliff. Now that GDT is also on the writing team, maybe he'll be the voice moderation?
Most of the additional stuff in LOTR was truly dreadful, the conceit that was offered was that it was necessary to make the book into a good film, which I guess at the end of the day is a matter of taste and judgement. The stuff that I have seen from GDT does demonstrate taste and judgement imo so I have very high hopes from this film.
That is not to say that GDT will necessarily be anymore "faithfull" than the crew on LOTR, it will be his vision working to a large extent in the visual framework created by PJ, and his take on the Hobbit.
I wouldn't expect moderation from GDT - that is not what he is known for.
No, not moderation, per se, but at least not the kind of excesses that PJ indulged in.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
No one would ever admit it, but it seems likely enough the some of the more egregiously "vulgar" moments in Rings were the result of studio executives doing focus group research and meddling with the script (shield-surfing, for example). That variable is not likely to change regardless of who's directing.
There's an interesting question in there--is the studio more inclined to interfere with the first film in a series when it's still unknown whether the thing even has a shot, or later installments when they know it's going to be a hit and even a small percentage increase in sales translates into big bucks?
Jackson does at least say in the commentaries that Legolas's Towers and King stunts were added in response to fan reaction, but I don't think he mentions whose idea it was (except perhaps a generic "we").
Another interesting post from Guillermo showing his thoughts about the upcoming films:
We are indeed conceiving these two films as part of a larger entity AS WELL as representing the book within them.
Therefore the HOBBIT narrative and beats and tone etc will not exist as a standalone but will have "long lines" that will actually be carried through the existing Trilogy and will illuminate it in a different way.
I believe this can be done. The experience of seeing both Hobbit movies will contain the same iconic beats that exist in the book but they will be enhanced by the Dol Guldur / Necromancer moments.
This i not an "This OR That" but a "This AND That" point of view, since, inevitably, for most people, this films will exist as part of a larger Geopolitical landscape and in our minds this exponentially grows the appeal of the tale-
Think about it- In a strange way that's what happens the further you dive into the Tolkien Universe... things form an astonishing "Mandala" of characters and places and facts. That was an experience that, in my case, sent shivers down my spine every time I came to a fork on the road and I was able to see the connective tissue and the astonishing possibilities behind it.
The experience of reading the book, for all of us, is encapsulated in a place and a time that solidifies it forever. That "imprint" is unique to each reader the world around and, like fingerprints, it becomes distinctive and irreplaceable.
The same goes for the films- many a Tolkien fan in recent years got his / her start with the movie PJ and the gang made so the Hobbit has, by imprimatur, a double allegiance and at the same time the duty to expand and present things anew-
So- in this I am going by my compass but hand-in-hand with them... I am trying to explore the avenues that enhance my memories of reading that book or my love for the LOTR films and I'm doing it with the best team possible. Nothing we are adding feels (to any of us) as a minus but rather a plus
So, my vows-
It is my solemn duty to make THE HOBBIT the best film viewing experience that the medium can provide. We want to make these movies as unique and powerful and new for you and your children as our group of artists and craftsmen can. We want to challenge all of us into creating something we've never sen, rather than solely reproducing it- and perhaps, in some measure, rather than looking back and arguing about what was or could have been, we may smile in luring more and more readers and viewer into experiencing the Universe created long ago by the Professor.
I thank you for your kind and wise words and refreshing clarity-
Yr Obt Svt
GDT
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Actually, I'm not really following the news that much. Waiting for announcements of actors etc and that's about it. I've decided to wait until I go and see the movie in the theater to make any decision on the adaptation without too much foreknowledge going into the movie. I'll grade it as a movie and then as an adaptation. I have a feeling I'll like the book far better as it has been with me for 33 years or so, but I'm usually that way, I much prefer to read and most books surpass any movie adaptation IMHO.
1. " . . . (we are ) too engrossed in thinking of everything as a preparation or training or making one fit -- for what? At any minute it is what we are and are doing, not what we plan to be and do that counts."
J.R.R. Tolkien in his 6 October 1940 letter to his son Michael Tolkien.
2. We have many ways using technology to be in touch, yet the larger question is are we really connected or are we simply more in touch? There is a difference.
I for one am pretty excited to see what del Toro comes up with, and I have pretty high hopes.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Whether or not that was intentional. 
)
