What changes, if any, do you think might be actually necessary to adapt The Hobbit to the screen?
What changes do you think PJ is likely to make?
What's your worst fear or best hope for these movies?
How will PJ adapt the Hobbit?
-
Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
- Posts: 40005
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
- Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
- Contact:
How will PJ adapt the Hobbit?
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
The 2nd movie is anyone's guess so I'll attempt to attack the first one.
Backstory and (whatever they call it when they voice over and talk about what is going on) are usually the first things that go or are cut down. I can see them minimizing the story of Thorin.
I suspect the way the dwarves were introduced to Bilbo will be cut down as well as the Unexpected Party.
I can live with all of that, but if they are going to use time to tell stories, but use things other than Tolkien, that is when I get a little crazy.
In other words, don't use time as an excuse then use the time with concocted stuff.
More likely cuts;
Giants
A good portion of Beorn, but I suspect PJ will like the whole skin changing thing and will manage to keep that in.
I'm sure I will think of more later.
Best hope?
Well keeping the natural progression of the story an growth of Bilbo as a character. The story went from lightish to darkish in part because Bilbo learned more about what he actually got himself into, and the culmination of the story. A lot of it also had to do with how Tolkien changed his style as well, but I don't want this to start out as LOTR the prequel.
Biggest fears?
The unknown probably. Not in a million years could I have envisioned the whole Aragorn off the cliff thing, scrubbing bubble ghosts, toss me, drinking games and the like. I shudder to think of the wild concoctions that are possible. For the love of all things holy, I hope he can manage to restrain his excesses.
Backstory and (whatever they call it when they voice over and talk about what is going on) are usually the first things that go or are cut down. I can see them minimizing the story of Thorin.
I suspect the way the dwarves were introduced to Bilbo will be cut down as well as the Unexpected Party.
I can live with all of that, but if they are going to use time to tell stories, but use things other than Tolkien, that is when I get a little crazy.
In other words, don't use time as an excuse then use the time with concocted stuff.
More likely cuts;
Giants
A good portion of Beorn, but I suspect PJ will like the whole skin changing thing and will manage to keep that in.
I'm sure I will think of more later.
Best hope?
Well keeping the natural progression of the story an growth of Bilbo as a character. The story went from lightish to darkish in part because Bilbo learned more about what he actually got himself into, and the culmination of the story. A lot of it also had to do with how Tolkien changed his style as well, but I don't want this to start out as LOTR the prequel.
Biggest fears?
The unknown probably. Not in a million years could I have envisioned the whole Aragorn off the cliff thing, scrubbing bubble ghosts, toss me, drinking games and the like. I shudder to think of the wild concoctions that are possible. For the love of all things holy, I hope he can manage to restrain his excesses.
I'm going to reply to Prim's post in the other thread here. I hope it's OK.
Still, apart from the first item, what does any of this have to do with the story? There is a reason why all this stuff is in the Appendices. Whose adventure it it, who is the hero, who will we root for and how does it contribute to the ultimate resolution? It sounds like a History Channel special, not an epic movie. If they are to make it into a real tale, they would have to invent-invent-invent, and it will turn out to be another run of the mill fantasy movie with pretty effects. And people will blame Tolkien.
I would be glad enough to have PJ film The Hobbit, if he sticks to Hobbit. Make it a bit darker, sure. Put in a 3-minute sequence of the White Council, sure, so we know where Gandalf went. Even add the bit at the start explaining how Gandalf meet Thorin and why this is all important. But I don't see a second movie, I just don't.
And for the love of Eru, KEEP ARWEN OUT OF IT!
Any movie can only be made better by Prim!Primula Baggins wrote:Grateful thanks to TORN for this list of material that might be included in the "bridge" film (link):
Emphasis mine, all mine.
- * The White Council meets to discuss The Necromancer (aka Sauron)
* The White Council (including Saruman and Gandalf) attack The Necromancer’s stronghold at Dol Guldur. This is to prevent Sauron from searching the river for the Ring. Sauron abandons Dol Guldur and takes up residence in Mordor.
* Gollum leaves the mountain, searching for the “thief” Baggins.
* Sauron declared himself openly, starting to gather power to Mordor.
* Aragorn searches the wilds for Gollum.
* Aragorn’s engagement to Arwen.
* Frodo’s birth.
I'm gonna be in a movie! I'm gonna be in a movie!
Still, apart from the first item, what does any of this have to do with the story? There is a reason why all this stuff is in the Appendices. Whose adventure it it, who is the hero, who will we root for and how does it contribute to the ultimate resolution? It sounds like a History Channel special, not an epic movie. If they are to make it into a real tale, they would have to invent-invent-invent, and it will turn out to be another run of the mill fantasy movie with pretty effects. And people will blame Tolkien.
I would be glad enough to have PJ film The Hobbit, if he sticks to Hobbit. Make it a bit darker, sure. Put in a 3-minute sequence of the White Council, sure, so we know where Gandalf went. Even add the bit at the start explaining how Gandalf meet Thorin and why this is all important. But I don't see a second movie, I just don't.
And for the love of Eru, KEEP ARWEN OUT OF IT!
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
-
WampusCat
- Creature of the night
- Posts: 8464
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:36 pm
- Location: Where least expected
I suspect that the elves will be less ... well, silly than they were in the book. "Tra la la ..."
My hope is that the moral choices over the Arkenstone will survive intact. To my mind, that elevated the story over a simple adventure tale.
I predict that the second movie will include Balin's relocation to Moria. He'll be a familiar character after the first movie, and that would tie nicely to the Moria scenes in FOTR.
My hope is that the moral choices over the Arkenstone will survive intact. To my mind, that elevated the story over a simple adventure tale.
I predict that the second movie will include Balin's relocation to Moria. He'll be a familiar character after the first movie, and that would tie nicely to the Moria scenes in FOTR.
Take my hand, my friend. We are here to walk one another home.
Avatar from Fractal_OpenArtGroup
Avatar from Fractal_OpenArtGroup
-
Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
- Posts: 40005
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
- Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
- Contact:
I agree about Balin, Wampus. I think anything that helps illuminate the LotR films is likely to make it into the bridge movie.
Which means (sorry, Frelga!) I don't see anything wrong with giving some Arwen and Aragorn backstory. In fact, Aragorn could probably serve as one of the focus characters, with his adventures in Rohan and Minas Tirith, and the fact that he also goes to Lothlórien and lives at Rivendell. TORN has a story mentioning location scouting in New Zealand—it's already begun, and the owners of the land where some of the Rohan sequences were filmed have been approached.
Not the owners of Hobbiton, but the article suggests that PJ may have filmed enough exteriors there to do for the Hobbit as well.
(I should properly have posted my own ideas in the first post of this thread, but it's been too long since I read the Hobbit. I started it a few months ago and life pulled me away. I'll have to remedy that soon.)
Which means (sorry, Frelga!) I don't see anything wrong with giving some Arwen and Aragorn backstory. In fact, Aragorn could probably serve as one of the focus characters, with his adventures in Rohan and Minas Tirith, and the fact that he also goes to Lothlórien and lives at Rivendell. TORN has a story mentioning location scouting in New Zealand—it's already begun, and the owners of the land where some of the Rohan sequences were filmed have been approached.
Not the owners of Hobbiton, but the article suggests that PJ may have filmed enough exteriors there to do for the Hobbit as well.
(I should properly have posted my own ideas in the first post of this thread, but it's been too long since I read the Hobbit. I started it a few months ago and life pulled me away. I'll have to remedy that soon.)
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
I haven't read the book in years myself, so I couldn't really say much (I'll be joining Prim in the library 
). I also hope Howard Shore is involved, that's a gimme. My biggest fear is that PJ will add too much frill (similar to the wizard dual or Aragorn's dive with the warg, etc 
).
At this point, however, I am very interested (and can't wait to find out) which actors will be chosen. Although Ian Holm did a brilliant job playing Bilbo, I'm sure they will find a younger look-a-like.
). I also hope Howard Shore is involved, that's a gimme. My biggest fear is that PJ will add too much frill (similar to the wizard dual or Aragorn's dive with the warg, etc ).At this point, however, I am very interested (and can't wait to find out) which actors will be chosen. Although Ian Holm did a brilliant job playing Bilbo, I'm sure they will find a younger look-a-like.
Texas, Land of the Free, Home of the Tumbleweeds....
-
Sassafras
- still raining, still dreaming
- Posts: 1406
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:55 am
- Location: On the far side of nowhere
- Contact:
The Dead swarming over Pelannor and into Minis Tirith looked a lot like a TV commercial for the toilet cleaner .... 'scrubbing bubbles'.Lalaith wrote:Scrubbing bubbles ghosts?!Please explain.
Ever mindful of the maxim that brevity is the soul of wit, axordil sums up the Sil:
"Too many Fingolfins, not enough Sams."
Yes.
I like the silly elves... I hope they stay silly... They're not at the end of their age yet in The 'Obbit...
As I said on B77, lots of the little events will probably be cut: The party, most of the dwarves, the two different lots of elves, the spiders in the forest might be toned down, or maybe cut altogether in favour of the trolls.
As I said on B77, lots of the little events will probably be cut: The party, most of the dwarves, the two different lots of elves, the spiders in the forest might be toned down, or maybe cut altogether in favour of the trolls.
Why is the duck billed platypus?
-
ToshoftheWuffingas
- Posts: 1579
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:34 pm
An Expedition of Dwarves?
The way I intellectualised the tone of The Hobbit to myself was to say that it was Bilbo's version of the story; as Tolkien makes plain anyway in the Shadow of the Past and the Prologue. I imagined Bilbo telling his story to hobbit children such as the young Frodo and Sam and others and embroidering and lightening the stories up until he couldn't do so any longer given the sad events at the end.
I think a valid way of reconciling the serious events with the silly ones is to show Bilbo telling a frivolous version and the film/movie going on to show what is more likely to have happened. Done well, it could add layers to Bilbo's character. This doesn't mean I advocate telling the story twice over; a few instances would be enough.
The way I intellectualised the tone of The Hobbit to myself was to say that it was Bilbo's version of the story; as Tolkien makes plain anyway in the Shadow of the Past and the Prologue. I imagined Bilbo telling his story to hobbit children such as the young Frodo and Sam and others and embroidering and lightening the stories up until he couldn't do so any longer given the sad events at the end.
I think a valid way of reconciling the serious events with the silly ones is to show Bilbo telling a frivolous version and the film/movie going on to show what is more likely to have happened. Done well, it could add layers to Bilbo's character. This doesn't mean I advocate telling the story twice over; a few instances would be enough.
You seriously hadn't heard that one before!? That one's been around for ages!Lalaith wrote:Sassafras wrote:The Dead swarming over Pelannor and into Minis Tirith looked a lot like a TV commercial for the toilet cleaner .... 'scrubbing bubbles'.Lalaith wrote:Scrubbing bubbles ghosts?!
Well, that's all I'll be thinking from now on!
Lali
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
"scrubbing bubbles ghosts" 
But I'm pretty confident they'll make it, since they made it into LotR. As for the number of dwarves, wasn't there a reason for having 13? And knowing Peter, there is no way he'll tone down, let alone cut the spiders. 
Do you think they'll keep the barrel ride??
I would hope they wouldn't cut Bilbo's trolls. I would be very upset if they did!Crucifer wrote:As I said on B77, lots of the little events will probably be cut: The party, most of the dwarves, the two different lots of elves, the spiders in the forest might be toned down, or maybe cut altogether in favour of the trolls.
But I'm pretty confident they'll make it, since they made it into LotR. As for the number of dwarves, wasn't there a reason for having 13? And knowing Peter, there is no way he'll tone down, let alone cut the spiders. Do you think they'll keep the barrel ride??
Texas, Land of the Free, Home of the Tumbleweeds....
Oh there will be spiders aplenty. Though I suspect they won't be called Lazy Lob and Crazy Cob.
Teremia wrote:
A dollop of dwarves?
Speaking of collective terms, is there any particular reason for a "rash of prostitutes"??
Teremia wrote:
A diminutation of dwarves?Should I have said, "I expect the dwarves will be somewhat reduced"?
What is the collective term for dwarves, anyhow?
An Exaltation of Larks
A Flock of Sheep
A ____ of Dwarves?
(A Delve of Dwarves?)
A dollop of dwarves?
Speaking of collective terms, is there any particular reason for a "rash of prostitutes"??
-
Primula Baggins
- Living in hope
- Posts: 40005
- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 am
- Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
- Contact:
I think the barrel ride has to be in. Though the drunken Elvish butler, not so much. Unless PJ introduces Elrond's Elf-trash cousins, the ones he never talks about and gets all stuffy when they're mentioned.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King