The Classical Music Thread

[Whistler]

Best quote ever about music, from Mark Twain:

"Wagner's music is better than it sounds."

[Old_Tom_Bombadil]

Modern stuff—I actually learned to appreciate it through playing it. The professor who conducted our college orchestra was a composer, and we premiered a couple of his pieces, which sounded like noise the first time through but were music by the middle of the second week.

My high school band had a very long tradition of excellence. We did a lot of sight-reading, which is great for the development of young musicians. Also, we played a great many very difficult orchestral transcriptions. They really build your chops. I recall one of the most difficult pieces we played was Debussy's "Fêtes". It must have sounded like a complete mess the first time we sight-read it. (Maybe the second time, too. )

I also recall my band teacher talking about music for prepared piano and what not. I remember him discussing the fine line between what was music and what was not music. There was a 20th century piece that he said he did not think was music at first, but as he learned more about it he decided that it was music after all. The soundtrack for 2001: A Space Odyssey comes to mind for some reason, but I'm not certain if it was a piece from that or not. (Atmospheres, perhaps?)

I remember attempting some music that did not have the traditional musical notation that we're all familiar with. It took a bit of mind-bending to play that.

One of my favorite 20th century composers is Benjamin Britten. He wrote a number of operas, and had a long collaboration--both personally and professionally--with tenor Peter Pears. Perhaps my favorite work by Britten is Serenade for Tenor, Horn, and Strings. The Serenade was originally written for Pears and horn player Dennis Brain. Pears later recorded it with Barry Tuckwell. I much prefer the Tuckwell recording because Pear's voice was much more developed than in the earlier recording with Brain.

I have a recording of the Serenade featuring German tenor Peter Schreier, one of my favorite tenors. Like Pears, Schreier is known more for his musicianship and interpretation rather than for the beauty of his voice. It's the only recording I have of Schreier singing in English. His accent is very noticeable, and he butchers a few of the English words, but his musicianship is so incredible it doesn't bother me. Actually, I find it rather charming.

[Rowanberry]

Hobby, we seem to be at the opposite ends of the scale - you adore Mozart, whom I find rather boring, and you say you can't stand Stravinsky, who in contrast is one of my all-time favourite composers. To each their own, I guess.

BTW, as far as I know, the riot in the premiere of the Rites of Spring was quite as much induced by Nijinsky's choreography as by the music - it was very far from the swans and fairies that the ballet audience was used to!

Yov, if you liked Stravinsky, both Prokofiev and Shostakovich might appeal to you as well.

Whistler mentioned Erik Satie; there's one composer that I also like. His piano pieces are really relaxing.

Wagner - that's the "heavy metal" of the classical genre. In general, I enjoy his music - not all, but most of it. And, whatever the others may say about the Ring tetralogy - for me, that's Opera, with a capital O.

Personally, I'm quite fond of Baroque music, and if I had to listen to just one style of classical music for a whole day, that's the style I would choose.

[truehobbit]

It must have sounded like a complete mess the first time we sight-read it. (Maybe the second time, too. )

Sounding like a complete mess reminded me of this week's choir rehearsal: after one particularly messed up part, the director said "it sounded like the dream of John Cage: all Beethoven's symphony's played at the same time"
(And it's only three weeks till the concert, so let's hope it gets better - it's not supposed to sound like John Cage! )

To each their own, I guess.

Yes, and that's leaving more for each!

I'm not a fan of listening to a Wagner-opera straight through, most of it I find sterile and boring, but his instrumental pieces can be ravishingly beautiful!

[Primula Baggins]

It must have sounded like a complete mess the first time we sight-read it. (Maybe the second time, too. )

Sounding like a complete mess reminded me of this week's choir rehearsal: after one particularly messed up part, the director said "it sounded like the dream of John Cage: all Beethoven's symphony's played at the same time"
(And it's only three weeks till the concert, so let's hope it gets better - it's not supposed to sound like John Cage! )

That reminds me of our high school orchestra conductor. When we got a little, er, overexcited she'd put down her baton and shout, "To the hills, men! Every man for himself!"

[truehobbit]

I think our problem is not so much overexcitement but lameness - a favourite of our conductor is to say in a mock-cute tone, 'awww, that was so cute! Like little angels', (because what we're singing is usually something grand or violent or in any way NOT cute).

[Old_Tom_Bombadil]

I'm not a fan of listening to a Wagner-opera straight through, most of it I find sterile and boring, but his instrumental pieces can be ravishingly beautiful!

That's mostly true for me, too.

Most of his Gesamtkunstwerk, i.e., opera, tend to be rather long and drawn out. The fact that most of his operas don't have traditional arias doesn't help, either. Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg is a notable exception, although I recall that Lohengrin also has some arias.

[Primula Baggins]

Years and years ago public television broadcast the Ring cycle with subtitles. Mr. Prim and I know little about opera, but we were completely drawn in by this broadcast. The subtitles made the drama accessible to us, and the music was (I'm using the word in its precise sense) awesome.

Listening, though, without understanding or at least knowing the story, it would all have been Too Much.

[Jude]

Those of you that find Wagner "too much" should check out his early works, like The Flying Dutchman or Tannhäuser. Very accessible and melodic.

What are we doing discussing Wagner in a classical music thread, though? Shouldn't someone start that Late German Romantic thread?

[Primula Baggins]

Pedant!

[Old_Tom_Bombadil]

Years and years ago public television broadcast the Ring cycle with subtitles.

Broadcast from The Met? I videotaped them.

They were performed in San Francisco around the same time. A friend of mine bought the series. I didn't see all of them with him, but I did see Siegfried. The moment I best remember was when Siegfried was reforging his father's broken sword, Nothung, and hammering in time with the music. It was ausgezeichnet!

I have several other operas that I videotaped off PBS years ago, but I am presently unable to watch them. If I only had them on DVD...

[Jude]

There are lots of places that will convert your videotapes to DVD, cheaply.

[cemthinae]

Perhaps my favorite work by Britten is Serenade for Tenor, Horn, and Strings. The Serenade was originally written for Pears and horn player Dennis Brain. Pears later recorded it with Barry Tuckwell. I much prefer the Tuckwell recording because Pear's voice was much more developed than in the earlier recording with Brain.

I have heard of this piece, but not been able to find a recording. Could you suggest a cd that would offer it? It would be much appreciated!

[Old_Tom_Bombadil]

Cemthinae, you can check to see what is available on Amazon.com (Amazon.ca if you're in Canada, or Amazon.uk in the United Kingdom). The great thing about Amazon is that for many recordings they have samples of most or all of the pieces so you can check to see which one you like best.

I would suggest either of the two recordings mentioned earlier featuring tenor Peter Pears. The piece was originally written at the request of French Horn player Dennis Brain, so that recording is the "original". I prefer the later recording with Barry Tuckwellbecause Peter Pears' singing is much better than on the earlier one. The Peter Schreier recording I mentioned is purely for Schreier fans like myself, I'm afraid.

I listened to a few of the many recordings of this work available at Amazon. (I think every English tenor around in the last half of the 20th century must've recorded this work.) I see that American tenor Jerry Hadley recorded Serenade. He's an excellent singer, and I would generally recommend his stuff. There are no samples for this recording, however, so I cannot offer an opinion on it.

This one featuring John Mark Ainsleysounds pretty good. Martyn Hill's recording I did not care for as much. There's also one featuring tenor Ian Partridge. I definitely do not recommend Partridge.

Contrary to popular belief, Ian Patridge was not a member of the Partridge Family.

[cemthinae]

Thanks! (And you can call me Cem.)

I'm a big Tuckwell fan so I would probably lean towards finding a recording with him on the horn. However, now that I think about it, all my Mozart recording are with Brain. Hmmm.

Oh well, when I have some money I'll be splurging on this next! I just have to avoid amazon.com because I always end up buying something when I go there. Indiana just doesn't have a very good selection of cds to choose from!

[Old_Tom_Bombadil]

Indiana just doesn't have a very good selection of cds to choose from!

Really? That's odd because the University of Indiana has one of the top music programs in the U.S.

I know what you're saying about Amazon. I have quite a lengthy "Wish List" there myself. (That's the trick to not spending money: press the "Add to Wish List" button rather than pressing the "Add to Shopping List" button. )

[cemthinae]

IU is over 3 hours away though!

If I want to get even close to a decent music selection I have to go to Fort Wayne, which is about 45 minutes away. Even there the places to shop for cds have dismal horn selections. I usually just browse through cds I already have!

I already have a very extensive wish list, I'm afraid! All in good time.

[Old_Tom_Bombadil]

So you're interested in Britten's Op. 31 for the horn-playing? You're asking the wrong guy then. I'm a tenor!

(Or maybe you just wanted an opinion from "the other point of view"? )

It's definitely an awesome piece for horn.

[cemthinae]

I'm not really interested in playing it. At least not right now. I was once very good at the horn, but my practice time is nil.

You just seemed to have some knowledge of it & I have been interested in finding a recording of it.

[Old_Tom_Bombadil]

Oh, okay, as long as you weren't interested in an expert on French Horn because I'm definitely not it, although I suppose I could tell a good tone quality from one that isn't so good.

I mentioned in my first post that I played flute for a number of years. I had originally wanted to play trumpet or trombone, but my mother doesn't care for brass instruments so she persuaded me to play flute. If I had it to do over again I would have switched to oboe or bassoon, although I think I would have been a good brass player.

Brass players have to play pretty much every day, don't they, to keep up their embouchure? All instrumentalists have to practice frequently, but I understood that brass players do especially.

I tried playing some brass instruments in a class at the university. (I had originally planned on being a music teacher, and it was required to take classes in all the various types of instruments.) I think I would have been a good brass player. I found trombone very easy, trumpet a little more difficult, and French Horn more difficult still.

We were required to play a scale for the class. For some reason I found it easier to play high notes than low notes on Horn so I played a very high scale. Considering that I'm a tenor and played flute, I determined that I must be treble oriented.