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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:00 pm 
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not something I would recommend
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
If it wasn't made clear, I see no point at all to the movie.


I'm honestly not sure what the point was either.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:33 pm 
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War for Planet of the Apes. Surprisingly thoughtful. Serkis has to be due that Oscar by now!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:55 am 
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not something I would recommend
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That one never had much appeal for me but after all the great reviews, I've put it in my "someday" Netflix queue.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:14 am 
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Finally got to see Wonder Woman, and thought it was fantastic! Enjoyed every minute of it, except the conversation between Diana and Steve re. marriage when Steve says " 'til death do us part" rarely works. The scriptwriters need to do more research about marriage during that time period. Most marriages WERE until death parted the spouses, divorce was MUCH MUCH less common than it is today, and there was quite a stigma against it.

It bugs me to see present-day attitudes being applied to something that (supposedly) took place 100 years ago. It was a VERY different time.

Other than that, parts of it were very predictable (I even was mouthing the next lines here and there before they were spoken) and parts a bit corny, but not in a way that prevented me from thoroughly enjoying the film. Would strongly recommend it to anyone who hasn't seen it!

And I didn't find the final fight scene a problem. Some super-hero fight scenes just seem to go on forever and ever, and they are actually BORING because you know how they are going to turn out. This one, however, managed to maintain the tension until the end.

Footnote: my movie-watching buddy, who has been knocked out of action by her breast cancer treatments has finished her chemo and radiation, so this is the first time we were able to go to a theater together since she was diagnosed last fall! It was SO great to be able to go out with her again! I haven't seen a single movie in a theater since her diagnosis, because she's the ONLY friend I have that shares my taste in movies! We have watched a couple of movies on DVD at her home, though. That was the backup plan, if she hadn't been feeling up to going out.

Anyone know what part of the world the opening scenes were filmed in? The cinematography was GORGEOUS! Even the battlefield scenes were extremely well done. (They obviously studied their history for THAT part of the film!) I will be surprised if the film doesn't earn an Academy Award nomination for its cinematography.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:12 am 
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of Vinyamar
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I don't think I've ever read a more pretentious review in my life.

https://thebaffler.com/the-immediate-ex ... /tory-porn

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:33 am 
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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:
yovargas wrote:
Túrin Turambar wrote:
Dunkirk is an iconic event not so much for the Battle, but because the British managed to evacuate their Army when it seemed certain it would be wiped out. Shortly after the Allies were surrounded at Dunkirk, Churchill warned the House of Commons to “expect hard and heavy tidings” from the Continent. Had that happened, Britain would have been left defenceless and probably would have been forced to seek terms of peace from Hitler, and the Second World War would have ended with a German victory and Nazi domination of Europe.


That should have been mentioned in the movie! (Though maybe it was and I just couldn't make out what they were saying....)


If it wasn't made clear, I see no point at all to the movie.


I think my previous post was a bit too cut-and-dry. We’re talking about speculative history, so we can’t say it’s certain that the Allies would have lost the War. But Britain would have had huge problems had it lost an extra 250,000 men.

To the specific point, though, my impression was that Nolan was going for realism above audience convenience, or even film convention. Most historical films would have scenes where one character explains to another what’s at stake. Dunkirk has no such scene. Nor do ever really learn the motivation of the main characters beyond survival. Or even most of their names, for that matter. I think the nameless young soldier who’s basically the main character of the “land” part of the story has all of five lines. So there’s no “Hi, I’m Joe, and you [the audience] want me to survive and get home so I can return to look after my sick Mum now that my Dad’s died” sort of speeches you expect in a movie like this.

It’s a bold decision, and it goes against conventional wisdom when creating characters the audience can invest in. But I think it works. Of course, there’s a trade-off as well. As I said before, some people will find the film impersonal, and people not already familiar with the context of the events could be lost. I found yov’s review interesting, because I was curious how someone in that position would have viewed it.

Sunsilver wrote:
Finally got to see Wonder Woman, and thought it was fantastic! Enjoyed every minute of it, except the conversation between Diana and Steve re. marriage when Steve says " 'til death do us part" rarely works. The scriptwriters need to do more research about marriage during that time period. Most marriages WERE until death parted the spouses, divorce was MUCH MUCH less common than it is today, and there was quite a stigma against it.

It bugs me to see present-day attitudes being applied to something that (supposedly) took place 100 years ago. It was a VERY different time.


I doubt that historical accuracy of any sort was a priority of the scriptwriters, and if it was, there were bigger problems than the treatment of Edwardian social mores! Personally, I think trying to combine the complex backstory with complex real history was at the heart of the film’s issues – there was just too much to fit in.

Alatar wrote:
I don't think I've ever read a more pretentious review in my life.

https://thebaffler.com/the-immediate-ex ... /tory-porn


Good Lord. Is that even a review of Dunkirk? If it is, it should never have been accepted, because only about one-tenth of it is about the film. One of those things that never fails to annoy me is reviewers who don’t actually talk about the thing they’re ostensibly reviewing. As for the actual content, I get the impression he doesn’t really understand what he’s talking about, and certainly not well enough to explain it. He calls Nolan Hobbesian at one point and the villain in Interstellar Hobbesian in another...

That said, the film has attracted some odd reviews. Like the review in New York which commented on the lack of gender and racial diversity in the cast…


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:05 pm 
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not something I would recommend
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Alatar wrote:
I don't think I've ever read a more pretentious review in my life.

https://thebaffler.com/the-immediate-ex ... /tory-porn


What the bloody hell was that??

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:32 pm 
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yovargas wrote:
Alatar wrote:
I don't think I've ever read a more pretentious review in my life.

https://thebaffler.com/the-immediate-ex ... /tory-porn


What the bloody hell was that??


Yup, what WAS that? SMH...



Túrin, in that scene in WW, Steve does try to conform to Edwardian mores by sleeping in a different part of the boat than Diana. Then, two minutes later he comes up with the bit about " 'til death do us part" NOT working.

You're either going to conform to the attitudes of the time in a film, or not. You can't have it both ways. That's my opinion, anyway.

One of the reasons it bugs me is because of my personal family history. My parents and their siblings were all born during the first quarter of the 20th century. My parents were married for just shy of 60 years, and out of 15 sets of aunts and uncles, (5 on my mom's side, 10 on my dad's) there was just ONE divorce.

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And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:00 am 
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People divorced, Sunny. People divorced 150 years ago. People divorced in Bible times. Did it happen less during the WWII era? Probably. Many people chose to stay together and be totally miserable. That is true.

My grandparents were divorced or something like that. My grandpa left and started another family back in Alabama. My dad is divorced from his first wife. Just because it didn't happen in your family doesn't mean it didn't happen. I think it's a fair statement. That's my opinion anyway.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:34 am 
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And staying together when totally miserable, and mentally apart, can be worse than divorce.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:59 am 
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Lali Beag Bídeach
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Absolutely.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Not saying divorce didn't happen, just that it was much less common. Historical figures back this up.

It's interesting to note the effects of the Depression and the two world wars on the marriage and divorce rates:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... ad59be975d

(And yes, some of the couples in my parents' siblings' families did not have happy marriages, but stuck it out anyway.)

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When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Lali Beag Bídeach
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Even if it was less common (can't read the article, but I don't doubt the assertion), it was still present, which means the movie line is not necessarily invalid, imo. What if, in the context of the character, that had been his experience, i.e., that the marriages he knew had ended? I don't know; it just seems like a very minor point to get stuck in your craw, but I also know that happens to me at times, too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:56 pm 
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Wrong within normal parameters
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I haven't seen Wonder Woman, but when is this conversation supposed to have taken place? IMDB says Steve is a WWII pilot, but your post says "100 years ago"? Anyway, for what it's worth (maybe nothing if there's time travel going on or something), the WaPo article you linked shows that US per capita divorce rates were actually higher circa WWII than they are now.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:59 pm 
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Dave, it's WWI.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:02 pm 
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The movie supposedly takes place just before the WWI armistice on November 11th, 1918 - eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month, so a very easy date to remember.

Yeah, guilty as charged, Lali. Very minor point, but it really bugged me.

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When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.


Last edited by Sunsilver on Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:06 pm 
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So this: "Major Steve Trevor is a US Army Air Force pilot from the 1940s" is just plain wrong? In any case, yes, an American who had their formative years circa 1900 would have seen divorce rates between 3 and 4 times lower than one growing up around 2000. It's kind of a tricky thing to measure, though, since concomitant changes to death rates add noise.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:09 pm 
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Yes, Dave, totally wrong, as far as the current WW movie is concerned. Wonder Woman also took part in World War II. I think that may be when her character originally became part of the DC Comics 'family'.

When you see movie Steve dropping a bomb by hand from his bi-plane, you definitely realize this is NOT WWII we're talking about!

Edit: yes, I was right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Woman

The Steve Trevor she pairs with in the comic book is supposedly a son of the one in the movie, and has the exact same origins as movie Steve (crashes his plane, and is saved by Diana) but in WWII, not WWI. :roll:

Umm...let's just say continuity has never been a strong suit with comic book heroes... :nono:

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When the night has been too lonely, and the road has been too long,
And you think that love is only for the lucky and the strong,
Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:46 am 
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On Dunkirk & all the other war sagas, and how they blithely ignore the South Asians - largely Indians - who fought in those wars.

Dunkirk, the War and the Amnesia of the Empire
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/opin ... d-war.html

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:56 am 
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At least WW had a few shots of several diverse groups of soldiers. Sikhs, I think? It's not exactly representation, but it's not a total erasure, which I suppose counts as progress.

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‘It’s a lot more complicated than that -’
‘No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.’
Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum


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